*Official* England in South Africa

[BoyBrumby]

Swann would have been a shoe-in for Fletcher, as he can bat and field. That would have made him a perfect replacement for Giles but at the time, Monty was the 'star' domestic performer and Swann wasn't. Prominence came at the end of the Fletcher tenure and Swann had some very quiet seasons during 04, 05 and 06.

Goes back to our 99/00 tour of SA (Swann the only survivor from that squad, funnily enough). Swanny missed the team bus and was (allegedly) not suitably repentent, so Big Dunc dismissed him from his thoughts.

Could see Swanny not being Fletcher's kind of bloke even if the tactiturn Zimba would've liked his multi-facetedness.

& Bello. Deary me. Hideous leave. Precisely why I advocated Wright's inclusion, tbh. Even if Luke bowls dross there's still every chance he'll score more than wee Ian anyway. No-lose gamble IMHO.

 

[TT Boy]

Goes back to our 99/00 tour of SA (Swann the only survivor from that squad, funnily enough). Swanny missed the team bus and was (allegedly) not suitably repentent, so Big Dunc dismissed him from his thoughts.

Could see Swanny not being Fletcher's kind of bloke even if the tactiturn Zimba would've liked his multi-facetedness.

& Bello. Deary me. Hideous leave. Precisely why I advocated Wright's inclusion, tbh. Even if Luke bowls dross there's still every chance he'll score more than wee Ian anyway. No-lose gamble IMHO.

Thanks for the info.

 

[aussie]

According to Aussie (the poster) you don't need a spinner in South Africa. 9 wickets so far...

. Why ya talking my name behind my back.

You probably where in mars when AUS (05/06 & 08/09) & ENG 04/05) won series in SA respectively. Spin has its use of course on certain grounds/condtions, but the fast-bowlers historically have clearly enjoyed bowling in SA more.

 

[TT Boy]

. Why ya talking my name behind my back.

You probably where in mars when AUS (05/06 & 08/09) & ENG 04/05) won series in SA respectively. Spin has its use of course on certain grounds/condtions, but the fast-bowlers historically have clearly enjoyed bowling in SA more.

As I said before the series, things have changed and Shane Warne had a huge influence on Australia winning the 2006 series. In as much that a greentop was prepared for the first to nullify him and it was Warne who bowled Australia to a series victory by taking six wickets at Durban, second innings. So it seems like you were on Mars during that series and anyone who knows anything about South African cricket knows the Centurion wicket is ideal for spinners. The Titans have played three spinners there domestically and opened the bowling attack with Paul Harris on occasions.

But according to you, Centurion is a road akin to Adelaide () and four seamers is the way to go.

 

[GIMH]

I'd love to know how talking on a public forum consitutes talking behind someone's back

 

[Goughy]

Precisely why I advocated Wright's inclusion, tbh. Even if Luke bowls dross there's still every chance he'll score more than wee Ian anyway. No-lose gamble IMHO.

Id back Steve Davies to score more than Wright. Id rather play 2 keepers than have Wright in the team.

 

[aussie]

As I said before the series, things have changed and Shane Warne had a huge influence on Australia winning the 2006 series. In as much that a greentop was prepared for the first to nullify him and it was Warne who bowled Australia to a series victory by taking six wickets at Durban, second innings. So it seems like you were on Mars during that series

Warne bowled AUS to victory in Durban yes, but does it change the FACT for all three test in 05/06 that seamers got more success on both sides?. No.

What about this year when AUS won again & ENG 04/05?.

and anyone who knows anything.about South African cricket knows the Centurion wicket is ideal for spinners. The Titans have played three spinners there domestically and opened the bowling attack with Paul Harris on occasions.

But according to you, Centurion is a road akin to Adelaide () and four seamers is the way to go.

Firstly sir i never claimed to be an expert on SA pitches. My comment at the time was based on the test matches at Centurion THAT I HAVE SEEN which where:

- SA vs AUS 97 (i remember vividly Warne toiling away wicketless here)
- ENG vs SA 2000
- ENG vs SA 2005

All where very good batting pitches or helped the seamers. Especially ENG vs SA 2005, it seem to play very much like an a Adelaide wicket based on what i remember.

I advocated ENG probably playing 4-seamers in this test, since i was hearing that the pitch may have been a slight greentop. But ATM that clearly isn't the case. So dont put words in my mouth uncle...

 

[GIMH]

Watching the highlights now. Can't wait for Jimmeh's six.

 

[GIMH]

Trott's dismissal is even worse than it sounded

 

[GIMH]

So erm, don't think anyone mentioned this from Athers before

"Pretty impressive Test match career so far"

Guess whose stats were on screen at the time? I'll give you a clue, Scaly is a big fan

 

[GIMH]

Ian Bell, in the words of my friend Uppercut, what the actual ****?

 

[TT Boy]

Warne bowled AUS to victory in Durban yes, but does it change the FACT for all three test in 05/06 that seamers got more success on both sides?. No.

What about this year when AUS won again & ENG 04/05?.




Firstly sir i never claimed to be an expert on SA pitches. My comment at the time was based on the test matches at Centurion THAT I HAVE SEEN which where:

- SA vs AUS 97 (i remember vividly Warne toiling away wicketless here)
- ENG vs SA 2000
- ENG vs SA 2005

All where very good batting pitches or helped the seamers. Especially ENG vs SA 2005, it seem to play very much like an a Adelaide wicket based on what i remember.

I advocated ENG probably playing 4-seamers in this test, since i was hearing that the pitch may have been a slight greentop. But ATM that clearly isn't the case. So dont put words in my mouth uncle...

What about it? The England series featured Mickey Mouse spinners in Boje and Giles. You forgot about what Paul Harris did at Cape Town?

No you didn't. You have been advocating that before any talk of a greentop, using the recent success of Australia whilst ignoring the success of spinners in South Africa in recent years.

So the three test matches (out of a possible 14) you have seen at Centurion was one over 12 years ago when Brett Schultz was still playing, one which was fixed and the other disrupted by rain. Some scope to esteem the wicket being a Adelaide road (despite the struggles of batsman and low totals, Aus shot out for 185) and not for spinners.

 

[aussie]

What about it? The England series featured Mickey Mouse spinners in Boje and Giles.

Yes both comparable jokers to Harris ATM. Fact is pace won ENG that series in 04/05 (although most the pitches where roads). Only Jo'Burg was bowler friendly when Hoggard swung ENG to victory & Capetown to a level when Langevelt swung ENG out

You forgot about what Paul Harris did at Cape Town?

Yes the that was road then. But the Jo'Burg & Durban tests where bowler freindly (although Durban did flatten out at the end).

No you didn't. You have been advocating that before any talk of a greentop, using the recent success of Australia whilst ignoring the success of spinners in South Africa in recent years.

No no no TT BOyyyyyy, why u doing this me TTBOyyyyy

My position on the SA series is that ENG should play 4 seamers on certain pitches not all.

- I always said Centurion based on the tests i have seen @ Centurion, that ENG would have play a spinner there. I just slightly changed by opinion before the first test when i was hearing talk it may have been a greentop.

- Jo'Burg & Durban based on past AUS & ENG test there (plus the recent IND vs SA 05/06 series) i have seen have always helped the fast bowlers alot. Plus they have alot of bounce thats why i advocated constantly Harmison should have toured remembering what Johnson did to Kallis & Smith earlier this year bowling that aggressive hit the deck line aiming at the body.

I still believe ENG will have to play 4-seamers in the tests there.

- Capetown. I have always said i am not sure what to expect at that ground based on the test i have seen. Sometimes its flat (AUS 09 & 01/02) other times it helped the quicks (ENG 99/00, ENG 04/05). So i dont know what to expect this series..

So the three test matches (out of a possible 14) you have seen at Centurion was one over 12 years ago when Brett Schultz was still playing, one which was fixed and the other disrupted by rain. Some scope to esteem the wicket being a Adelaide road (despite the struggles of batsman and low totals, Aus shot out for 185) and not for spinners.

Again TT, i never was basing by judgement on centurion based on any GREAT knowledge of the venue, it was just a vague comment that you have run away with & have totally misinterpreted what i meant. My GOD..

The last test i saw @ Centurion ENG 04/05 gave me the impression that it was similar to the Adelaide Oval. The recent champions trophy matches there also helped to reinforce that belief. Thats it.

 

[wpdavid]

Goes back to our 99/00 tour of SA (Swann the only survivor from that squad, funnily enough). Swanny missed the team bus and was (allegedly) not suitably repentent, so Big Dunc dismissed him from his thoughts.
Could see Swanny not being Fletcher's kind of bloke even if the tactiturn Zimba would've liked his multi-facetedness.

Certainly counted against him. otoh Dunc was prepared to stick with 'difficult' characters if he thought they added something to the team - Caddick, Harmy & even Fred, whose beery reputation went before him in the early 2000's.

& Bello. Deary me. Hideous leave. Precisely why I advocated Wright's inclusion, tbh. Even if Luke bowls dross there's still every chance he'll score more than wee Ian anyway. No-lose gamble IMHO.

Looking that way, although you could bet your house on Bell making a career-saving but ultimately pointless 40 in the 2nd innings.

 

[King Pietersen]

Really hope Onions pitches it up this morning. Bowled far too short yesterday evening.

Jimmehh! =D Harris gone, bit unlucky for him but at least Jimmy's bowling full and attacking the stumps. Come on England, 8 more this session

 

[wpdavid]

Needed that - last thing we wanted was the nightwatchman seeing off the new ball.

 

[Jarquis]

Onions got Smith as well.
39/3

 

[GIMH]

Wow, thread's quiet. Interesting session so far, Swann bowling well, particularly the over before last. Reckon we can squeeze another couple out before lunch, if we do then game on.

 

[GIMH]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs

 

[Jarquis]

**** YEAH! Kallis gone