*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[Neil Pickup]

Just because England's middle order didn't succeed doesn't mean South Africa's didn't fail. (Don't complain about the English!).

Dippenaar got dropped, that's clearly an indication of failure (and Andy Hall was preferred to Rudolph for this Test, that's never a good thing) - it's also interesting that you criticise de Villiers, who aged 20 has been shoved around the team to try to protect Smith's average amongst other things and impressed plenty of neutral observers.

 

[Pratters]

Just because England's middle order didn't succeed doesn't mean South Africa's didn't fail. (Don't complain about the English!).

Dippenaar got dropped, that's clearly an indication of failure (and Andy Hall was preferred to Rudolph for this Test, that's never a good thing) - it's also interesting that you criticise de Villiers, who aged 20 has been shoved around the team to try to protect Smith's average amongst other things and impressed plenty of neutral observers.

I am not criticising Devilliers. Just pointing out players who failed in the middle order. His is not totally to blame or it as you correctly point out.

What was the crucial difference between the two sides if analysed? The bowling or the middle order? Both teams had one exceptional player in performing. Soth African middle order wasnt successful. But 3 players averaging in the 30s isnt a total failure. I would imagine Rudolph's dropping was also due to the want of team balance.

South Africa has felt the lack of the bowler more than any thing. Including Hall they get the bowling and batting depth.

 

[Richard Rash]

For all the Poms who thought they will win the series, remember you WONT win this match or series for that matter. I said that before the series started and will maintain that.

Hmm.. interesting

 

[marc71178]

You've probably seen a lot more of his bowling than me, but I reckon it has potential.

Needs a lot of work - it really does show up the standard of County Cricket that he averaged what he did last year!

 

[marc71178]

Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
Vaughan
Flintoff
Collingwood
Pietersen
Jones
+3 bowlers.

2 points - Pietersen at 7 is mad.
With Giles at 9 (as he should be in the side) - Read replaces Jones!

 

[marc71178]

Stats of the middle order players in the series (after 4 tests):-

http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2004-05/ENG_IN_RSA/STATS/ENG_IN_RSA_DEC2004-FEB2005_TEST_AVS.html

S. Africa

Kallis - Avg of 60
Dipenaar - 34.5
Rudolph - 33.6

Jaarsveld and Devilliers have been failures.

So like I said they lack a middle order - Kallis is the only reliable man there.

 

[marc71178]

South Africa has felt the lack of the bowler more than any thing. Including Hall they get the bowling and batting depth.

So much so that they lost the 1st game he played and are on the back foot in the 2nd game.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Pollock will be disappointed with his batting. He averages well over 30 in test cricket but only managed 17.14 this series.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Pollock will be disappointed with his batting. He averages well over 30 in test cricket but only managed 17.14 this series.

Fred's sorted him out with his short stuff! Johnny Foreigner doesn't like it up him!!

 

[tooextracool]

Strauss has been at least as reliable as Collingwood IMO

in his last 3 series which includes a total of 11 games, hes had averages of 22,34 and 26 while collingwood has had averages of 83, 70 and 4.

 

[tooextracool]

Lead overall...

but it was under no pressure, it simply took england from a safe position to a good position. the problem with g.jones throughout this series is that hes been playing shots too early in his innings, did either of his 2 good performances do anything different?

 

[Pratters]

So much so that they lost the 1st game he played and are on the back foot in the 2nd game.

The idea of including Hall over him was his all round ability. It didnt work out is another matter.

 

[Pratters]

So like I said they lack a middle order - Kallis is the only reliable man there.

Average in the 30s is mediocre but not a lack of a middle order.

 

[marc71178]

Kallis apart, there is nobody in that middle order that scares you.

Almost every other side has 2 or 3 batsmen that you would be worried about, but with SA if you get Kallis then the job is half done!

 

[Mr Casson]

England is really missing James Anderson at the moment.

 

[twctopcat]

2 points - Pietersen at 7 is mad.
With Giles at 9 (as he should be in the side) - Read replaces Jones!

Yeah that is why i thought when i made that team but i think Pietersen will be such a good ODI player you have to put him in there. Fair point on Read coming back for Jones too.

 

[wpdavid]

Meanwhile, AB & Kallis are scoring increasingly freely. Possible declaration half an hour after lunch, unless they go completely mad in the next hour. Should make for an entertaining last couple of sessions one way or another.

 

[twctopcat]

Don't like the look of this.

 

[Tim]

I know Jones is an average keeper at best, but he's been batting pretty well hasn't he?

 

[Mr Casson]

Don't like the look of this.

Why not? South Africa have nothing left to lose now.. At some point they'll bite the bullet and declare. It might even give England a chance to win. The faster South Africa score, the longer England have to take it down. After all, South Africa want a decent amount of time to try and bowl England out.