*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[Pratters]

Erm, when the ball has already pitched, that makes no difference at all.

O really it makes no difference because it had pitched?

The ball pitches at position x for a pace bowler as well as a spinner and hits a batsman at a specific place on his pad. A spinner has the ball deviating more than a swinger at a slower pace. So after hitting the pads, the ball is likely to deviate much more in case of a spinner. Assuming ofcourse that the ball has spin and movement in case of the spinner and pacer respectively.

 

[Pratters]

you tell me how it is possible to make an lbw decisions that takes place in a split second in under 2 seconds without absolute certainity?

depends on how much doubt. the fact is that most people assume that 'doubts' means ' 70 - 90% certainty' when it actually implies ' 50% certainity'

You believe with certainty its out, else you dont give it. Thats the way it goes. If we could give the decisions with certainty, we would be umpires. As we would be players if we could hit the balls in under a second as players manage.

 

[Pratters]

No, we can attempt to, but unless we are in the middle, we do not know the whole story.

No we can still make the subjective judgements. Obviously we do not know the whole story as we are not standing in the middle but does not bar us from thinking what is probably true.

 

[Pratters]

So what? Giles is a left-arm orthodox spinner! If anything that would make it closer than a ball from a seamer!

But this is Giles, who rarely turns it anyway

He certainly turns it more than a seamer moves a ball and hence the comparison is not appropriate.

 

[Mister Wright]

The ball had pitched far enough in front of Gibbs' pad to show the ball was not going to spin past the stumps. Gibbs was not a long way forward either, so the umpire had enough from the ball pitching outside off-stump and pitching on off & middle to know it wasn't going to bounce over or miss. Not exactly plum, but out in my books.

 

[marc71178]

And, curiously enough if you check the final scorecard, that says out as well.

 

[Mr Casson]

He certainly turns it more than a seamer moves a ball and hence the comparison is not appropriate.

Yeah, and he turns it to the off-side of a right-hander. Here you were complaining about it missing leg when you come out and say he turns it more than a seamer!

 

[wpdavid]

Anyway, the SA selectors have identified the guilty parties for the Jo'burg defeat, and Amla and Steyn are out of the squad for Centurion Park. Steyn will be replaced by Langeveldt or Nel.

 

[Mr Casson]

Amla was always going to be out of it, and if Langeveldt is fit, he'll take the spot.

 

[wpdavid]

Amla was always going to be out of it, and if Langeveldt is fit, he'll take the spot.

Yup. To be fair to the Saffies, Langeveldt was a significant loss to the side given the conditions at the Wanderers. But will his broken hand really have recoved by Friday? As for us, Cricinfo reckon Fred & Harmy will be fit for one last effort before flying home and missing the onedayers.

I wonder what the wicket will be like. SA don't want a shirtfront if they're going to save the series. Come to that, I wonder what the weather forecast is.

 

[Mr Casson]

Yup. To be fair to the Saffies, Langeveldt was a significant loss to the side given the conditions at the Wanderers. But will his broken hand really have recoved by Friday? As for us, Cricinfo reckon Fred & Harmy will be fit for one last effort before flying home and missing the onedayers.

I wonder what the wicket will be like. SA don't want a shirtfront if they're going to save the series. Come to that, I wonder what the weather forecast is.

I don't know what a shirtfront is, but I assume it's not a flatty!

I think the best South Africa can do is hope for a greenhouse to guarantee a result and then try to come out on top. They'd be well endowed with Jacques Kallis and Herschelle Gibbs in good form. Plus, they have the incisive bowlers and England has the walking wounded.

 

[Marius]

I work in Pretoria, and it has generally been quite cloudy over the past few days, with drizzle in the evenings. Looks like conditions wqhich will help the seamers. However, Titans captain Darryl Cullinan (Centurion Park is one of Titans' home grounds) said that Centurion has been pretty good for batting this season, and has got better as games have progressed. His advice was, bowl if you win the toss, to get any advantage that mnay be in the wicket. Glad to see that Nella's back, is a better option that Steyn. But I wish they would drop Dippenaar, there are so many other people who would do a better job than him, Neil McKenzie, HD Ackerman, Ashwell Prince, Morne van Wyk, Lance Klusener, hell I'd have Cullinan in there before Boeta. He has had enough chances, send him back to Bloem to play for Free State.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hasn't Ackerman decided to go and chase the Kolpak pound?

Shirtfront = Featherbed.

 

[Marius]

Yes, he has, but does this make him unavailable for SA? If it does, that is ridiculous.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I stand to be corrected on this, but as far as I'm aware, he (like Claude Henderson) has chosen to play in England as a non-overseas player, so for purposes of International classification he becomes ineligible for South Africa.

Similar to Craig Spearman in some respects.

 

[wpdavid]

I don't know what a shirtfront is, but I assume it's not a flatty!

I think the best South Africa can do is hope for a greenhouse to guarantee a result and then try to come out on top. They'd be well endowed with Jacques Kallis and Herschelle Gibbs in good form. Plus, they have the incisive bowlers and England has the walking wounded.

IIRC a shirtfront is a batters' paradise. Unless I've got my words wrong, which is quite possible. I agree - I think there will be a greenish track to ensure a result. It's not as if SA have anything to lose by doing that.

 

[Jono]

And, curiously enough if you check the final scorecard, that says out as well.

Really? Obviously that's the case, thus why the debate is occurring. Thanks for adding that anyway.

 

[Marius]

I stand to be corrected on this, but as far as I'm aware, he (like Claude Henderson) has chosen to play in England as a non-overseas player, so for purposes of International classification he becomes ineligible for South Africa.

Similar to Craig Spearman in some respects.

I think you may be right. With regards to Claude Henderson, Neil Manthorp wrote an article just prior to the England series that Henderson had apparently returned to SA, and told Graeme Smith that he would quit county cricket and return home to play for SA, even if this meant a pay cut. Seems nothing has happened with this, but I have always regarded Henderson as a better option than Boje. Boje's not bad (I think he is as good as Ashley Giles), but Henderson's FC record is superior to Boje's. The previous convenor of selectors, Omar Henry, apparently didn't rate Henderson, hence Henderson's lack of opportunity at international level. One can't really blame the likes of Henderson, Ackerman and Benkenstein for seeking their fortunes on the county cicuit. They clearly aren't going to get picked for SA, so why not go make a bit of money rotting in English domestic cricket, rather than rotting in SA domestic cricket. However, when guys like Dewald Pretorius and Nantie Hayward play cricket in England, saying they aren't available for SA, that really gets my goat up. At least when Hall and Nel signed for counties, they both had escape clauses, saying if selected for SA their country would release them. These are the kind of guys we need in SA cricket, not whining babies like Kevin Pietersen (I can't make the Natal team, because Goolam Bodi is better than me, let me emigrate). ******. Andrew Hall had apparently made plans to emigrate to Australia, and had lined up a contract with Victoria. However, when he was selected for SA in 2002 he decided to stay, like a true South African.

 

[marc71178]

Anyway, the SA selectors have identified the guilty parties for the Jo'burg defeat, and Amla and Steyn are out of the squad for Centurion Park. Steyn will be replaced by Langeveldt or Nel.

To be fair to Amla, you can't blame him for the 4th Test!

 

[marc71178]

Yes, he has, but does this make him unavailable for SA? If it does, that is ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous?

Can't have it both ways!