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*Official* England in South Africa Thread

Tom Halsey

International Coach
SpaceMonkey said:
We really needed at least 1 more week and another 3 day game, i have a feeling we're gonna get tanked in the first test and only start to find form around the 3rd test...far too late :(
Key must be loving it.
Maybe, but I have a feeling it might just come right come the 1st Test.

Damn, I hope I'm right. :happy:
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Scaly piscine said:
England are generally useless in warm-up games, they usually lose to 'Wales' in ODI warm-up games.
How many times have they lost to wales (including Kasprowicz and Kallis)... Once?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
wpdavid said:
I don't know a thing about Langeveldt - is he a contender for a test spot?
SirBloody Idiot said:
Not in the squad, and to me he seems a little hard done by.

Was far from awful in the one day format in recent times, and has proved against what I would call a full strength England side he can bowl in the four day game.

Deserved a spot methinks.
I don't know about that.
Langeveldt, certainly, should have played a hell of a lot more ODIs than he has - his List-A-one-day average is in the teens and his economy-rate is OK.
But his First-Class pedigree isn't the greatest and there have been plenty more worthy candidates for the Test-side - Willoughby included.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
tooextracool said:
looks just like several of his other dismissals this year.
Hopefully the second-innings might be a better indication - haven't read of any dropped catches... yet.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SirBloody Idiot said:
Trecothicick again fails overseas.

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't post a score at all this tour.
A five-Test series is a long time.
As we saw last time against SA.
Does sod-all in the first 4 Tests, then everything is forgiven and more when he plays such a part in winning a crucial Test.
Never mind all the games he's played a part in losing before then...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SpaceMonkey said:
We really needed at least 1 more week and another 3 day game, i have a feeling we're gonna get tanked in the first test and only start to find form around the 3rd test...far too late :(
Key must be loving it.
Yeah, personally I'd say he's got to be given serious consideration for PE.
I don't know about The First Test, though - I'm just gonna wait and see... remember last tour? 3 good warm-ups, then we get to The Wanderers... didn't take long for all the good work to totally fall apart. 2 for 4, and all that.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Langeveldt said:
159/7.. No wickets for Lang, but Willoughby turning up the heat.. Id rather have the former playing though
Looking at ODIs, yeah, you'd say so.
Having seen Willoughby bowl in domestic games several times, his Test and ODI records are something close to inexplicable.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
wpdavid said:
Gibbs has an injury which is expected to take him out of the first 3 tests.
I think De Villiers is Smith's likely opening partner. Hall is more likely to play at 6, I think.
If De Villiers has a good series that may well be the end of Gibbs' career.
I wouldn't be too surprised to see those 2 opening for the next 15 years if he can transfer his domestic form to the international arena.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
That "he was really going to be shattered by 7-31-1, wasn't he?"
In a sarcastic way.
See?
Except the shattered was talking about going after him, not being tired?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SirBloody Idiot said:
I still do not know why they would omit Gibbs and Boucher. It is stupidity. It is obvious that Tsolekile can't bat aswell as Boucher, and frankly is a below average gloveman.
Boucher, yes. But I can wholly understand the selection of AB, he looks like a fantastic batsman.
And as good as Andrew Hall played against India, I still don't see him performing up to the required consistancy as an opener. And we all know how well Gibbs has played against England in the past.
Gibbs has played 2 high innings against England in Test-cricket, 1 of which needed an early dropped catch.
By-and-large, England have had the wood over him, just like they did with Liebenberg... shame we've always had so many problems with Kirsten and Smith. :mellow:
My lineup with that squad would be...

G Smith
A Hall
J Rudolph
J Kallis
Z de Bruyn
H Amla (this guy will be star, regardless how stupid he looks)
H Dipenaar
S Pollock
T Tsolekile
N Boje
M Ntini

I'd put de Villiers as 12th man.

Not as light on in the bowling options I thought, Ntini, Pollock, Boje can handle the main bowling, while de Bruyn, Kallis, Hall and Rudolph can cover other aspects of bowling.
Personally I'd prefer to have Boje batting above Tselokile, if he plays - and really I'd prefer have Hall above Pollock and AB opening.
Still would have liked to see a spin option in Paul Adams, Claude Henderson or the guy who played in the last few games (name escapes me) and also Boucher and Gibbs of course.
Robin Peterson? Justin Ontong? You surely cannot be serious!
Paul Adams has been in horrible touch recently and Claude Henderson I don't think has even played this season. Boje is the only serious option - but really spin shouldn't play too big a part in this series.
As for England, their team would stay the same as it hqas for a while, obviously without Key and Anderson. I still doubt Simon Jones' ability as a bowler since the injury, and don't think he will cause too many problems. Butcher, however, will add some much needed experience in there. Would love to see Harmison maybe get a bat other then 11th cause he is a big hitter when he gets onto it, much better then Hoggard to me.

I believe we will be prepared for another Trescothcick away failure as per usual.

M Trescothick
A Strauss
M Vaughan
M Butcher
G Thorpe
A Flintoff
G Jones
A Giles
S Harmison
S Jones
M Hoggard

My prediction: Just because of form and stability, this will go to England, but after that tour of England I believe South Africa are regaining that fighting spirit. Disappointing of the late finding of Zander de Bruyn cause he really showed a lot against Kumble and the likes.

But I think Harmison, Hoggard and co. will really be relentless and I think South Africa have made a mistake in selection Tsolekile as it gives makes them add another speciallist batsman because of Tsolekile's inexperience and lack of batting talent compared to someone like Dipenaar and Hashim Amla.

South Africa edge it in terms of batting talent as this is the first time in a while people like Flintoff and Trescothick have to prove themselves on foreign soil where they generally struggle. However, England are vastly superior in the bowling options, but still Giles and Harmison have to prove to be dynamic on foreign soil as they are in England. If current form is anything to go by, I predict England 2-0, but only just.
Hoggard has far more ability with the bat, even if he doesn't swing as hard as Harmison. He's always more likely to make a telling lower-order contribution. I can't see Harmison making many with Ntini (and hopefully later Nel) tearing in at him.
I think it's realistic to hope Tselokile might be dumped after this Test, personally. Maybe AB can keep wicket and bat three? That'd enable the selection of an extra batsman or bowler.
Still no-one has mentioned what the pitch is looking like, it seems. Not heard a peep.
If it's like some of the WC surfaces 2 years ago, a bore draw is a distinct possibility.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
Except the shattered was talking about going after him, not being tired?
Yeah.
If anyone's shattered after 2 months' break, they're not fit to anywhere near the neccessary standards.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Pratyush said:
I can always hope that Harmison finally loses his touch vs South Africa. It is about time he does!
It might seem so.
To make guesses, though, is always a dangerous thing.
We can but wait and see... if he were to average 50 in the series, you know who'd have told you so...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
What are people basing this apparent decline in Harmison's bowling on then?

He's bowled in a whole 2 innings in SA, and in one of them he was quite superb.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yes, but it wasn't a game of any meaning (no, I'd say that whatever Harmison's figures were).
I'm not, personally, basing it on anything - I'm going to wait for the Tests to do that.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
What are people basing this apparent decline in Harmison's bowling on then?

He's bowled in a whole 2 innings in SA, and in one of them he was quite superb.
He is a quality bowler but a class bowler can have a bad series as well. Thats what I am hoping for atleast.

Regarding him bowling badly, its just a ploy from the South Africans to start rattling the best English bowler by attacking him IMO. Just to make him ask some small questions as to how he should be bowling in his mind.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Richard said:
Hopefully the second-innings might be a better indication - haven't read of any dropped catches... yet.
according to the paper he gave a sharp chance to short leg early on, then was dropped from a top edge in his 40's
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
"Sharp chance to short-leg" is usually a pretty safe bet for being something no-one has a realistic chance of taking.
But a top-edge is almost always a chance.
So, basically no batsman has displayed any real form and we've got to hope for something to change in The First Test.
 

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