***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[MrPrez]

The point being (iirc), that mixed doesn't count as black, but as coloured. In SA, there is white, black, coloured & indian. At least that is how I understood things. To me, Bavuma looks mixed.

Yes, you're correct on the racial classifications (or whatever you'd like to call them). As far as players of colour go, we've had Ashwell Prince score a century too, as well as JP Duminy.

Temba is the first black player (as opposed to coloured/indian) to score a century. He is definitely black, as evidenced by his name. He has a lighter skin, and doesn't have the same accent as, say, Makhaya Ntini. This is because the 'black' population of South Africa has multiple 'black' cultures. Ntini, for example, is from the Eastern Cape, and is Xhosa. I'm not sure which tribe Bavuma derives from, but just for clarity's sake there are 11 official languages in South Africa - English, Afrikaans and 9 'African' languages. So that should give you a clear picture as to how there is a noticeable difference in visible traits between different South African Black people.

Additionally, Bavuma grew up in the Cape Town area. This area has a lot of coloured people, so there is the chance that he has some cape malay lineage somewhere in his family.

 

[smash84]

why did hashim amla declare today? Should have just batted out today and tomorrow until the team was all out. There's no result to be gleaned from this wicket.

 

[Furball]

Pitch deserves to come in for proper criticism. It won't because it's going to go 5 days, but it should.

It didn't spin though. So it's fine.

One of the arguments against the pitches in India was that they didn't give good batsmen a chance to score runs. I wonder how many people will bring up the "Morkel, Anderson and Broad between them have bowled 101 overs and taken 4 wickets" as a counter argument.

 

[Spark]

why did hashim amla declare today? Should have just batted out today and tomorrow until the team was all out. There's no result to be gleaned from this wicket.

Exhaustion can make batsmen do dumb things tbf. See the 1st test of the Eng/Pakistan series

 

[Furball]

why did hashim amla declare today? Should have just batted out today and tomorrow until the team was all out. There's no result to be gleaned from this wicket.

Because the match is currently in a position where the only 2 results possible are a draw or a South Africa win. England collapse horribly tomorrow morning and SA can still win this.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Broad apparently been charged with excessive appealing. He's not chuffed on twitter.

 

[Rasimione]

Yes, you're correct on the racial classifications (or whatever you'd like to call them). As far as players of colour go, we've had Ashwell Prince score a century too, as well as J P Duminy.

Temba is the first black player (as opposed to coloured/indian) to score a century. He is definitely black, as evidenced by his name. He has a lighter skin, and doesn't have the same accent as, say, Makhaya Ntini. This is because the 'black' population of South Africa has multiple 'black' cultures. Ntini, for example, is from the Eastern Cape, and is Xhosa. I'm not sure which tribe Bavuma derives from, but just for clarity's sake there are 11 official languages in South Africa - English, Afrikaans and 9 'African' languages. So that should give you a clear picture as to how there is a noticeable difference in visible traits between different South African Black people.

Additionally, Bavuma grew up in the Cape Town area. This area has a lot of coloured people, so there is the chance that he has some cape malay lineage somewhere in his family.

Bavuma is also a Xhosa lad.

 

[Stapel]

Yes, you're correct on the racial classifications (or whatever you'd like to call them). As far as players of colour go, we've had Ashwell Prince score a century too, as well as JP Duminy.

Temba is the first black player (as opposed to coloured/indian) to score a century. He is definitely black, as evidenced by his name. He has a lighter skin, and doesn't have the same accent as, say, Makhaya Ntini. This is because the 'black' population of South Africa has multiple 'black' cultures. Ntini, for example, is from the Eastern Cape, and is Xhosa. I'm not sure which tribe Bavuma derives from, but just for clarity's sake there are 11 official languages in South Africa - English, Afrikaans and 9 'African' languages. So that should give you a clear picture as to how there is a noticeable difference in visible traits between different South African Black people.

Additionally, Bavuma grew up in the Cape Town area. This area has a lot of coloured people, so there is the chance that he has some cape malay lineage somewhere in his family.

Thanks for the reply!

What you have written down, is pretty much how I understood things. They only thing I find weird (if I find not just anything weird about it) is that Bavuma is (counts as) definitely black, evidenced by his name. This suggests that, if he has a white (grand)mother with Dutch ancestry, which might be the case given he is light skinned, he is still regarded as black, through his father's name.

This leads to a hypothesis that SA's quota system is rather based on culture, than on race. Does this hold any truth?

 

[Stefan9]

Broad apparently been charged with excessive appealing. He's not chuffed on twitter.

I would have charged him for tampering with the pitch when he had a kick at it but not appealing...

 

[Howe_zat]

Broad apparently been charged with excessive appealing. He's not chuffed on twitter.

You'd think that'd be the last thing he'd be charged with. It's like hearing he's been charged with excessive walking.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Thanks for the reply!

What you have written down, is pretty much how I understood things. They only thing I find weird (if I find not just anything weird about it) is that Bavuma is (counts as) definitely black, evidenced by his name. This suggests that, if he has a white (grand)mother with Dutch ancestry, which might be the case given he is light skinned, he is still regarded as black, through his father's name.

This leads to a hypothesis that SA's quota system is rather based on culture, than on race. Does this hold any truth?

Black used to be any non white person, now its white, black african and everyone else in sport is "black".

Prince and mixed are of mixed race (through centuries) culturaly.

Anyway i really enjoyed tembas innings, rode a bit of luck but some of those pulls and hoojs were gorgeous.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Temba is black african if there is any Dutch lineage it would be absolutely tiny. He is as much a black african xhosa as i am a Caucasian Dutchman.

 

[social]

Some of the test pitches served up recently by Australia, England, India and now SA have been nothing short of a disgrace

Administrators wonder why the BBL is going gangbusters whilst test cricket is killing itself slowly via a 1000 cuts

FMD, it's not hard - serve up an even contest you ****wits

 

[cnerd123]

Yay more whinging about pitches!

This pich is fine. If England held their catches they would be in pole position right now and looking at 2-0.

If you bowl/set fields as badly as SA did to Stokes/Bairstow you cant blame the pitch if they rack up 600. If you drop 4 catches -including the double-centurion a couple of times- you can't blame the pitch if they rack up 600.

Sometimes its not the pitch's fault.

 

[cnerd123]

FTR I'm not trying to argue that this pitch isn't flat; just saying its a bit indisingenuous to blame the pitch for the current match situation. There are clearly loads of other factors - poor bowling, poor captaincy, poor catching, and some genuinely good batting. And bowlers get tired; the first 300 runs are always a lot harder to score than the last 300. It is significantly easier for a side to go from 400 to 600 than it is to go from 200 to 400.

No one was calling this a flat pitch when England were 223/5 on Day 1. Why start now simply because of the scoreline?

 

[Spark]

Nah come on when we're going into Day 5 of a Test without the slightest bit of sideways assistance for bowlers, then it's perfectly reasonable to call the pitch ****.

 

[cnerd123]

Nah come on when we're going into Day 5 of a Test without the slightest bit of sideways assistance for bowlers, then it's perfectly reasonable to call the pitch ****.

I just hate pitch blaming in general. Its literally the last excuse any player/fan/analyst should resort to. Especially in this game where you've had as many catches dropped as wickets taken, some bad captaincy/bowling, and some really good batting.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah come on when we're going into Day 5 of a Test without the slightest bit of sideways assistance for bowlers, then it's perfectly reasonable to call the pitch ****.

He is right though, that England would be winning this if they'd held their catches. It's not as though chances haven't been created.

 

[Gnske]

I just hate pitch blaming in general. Its literally the last excuse any player/fan/analyst should resort to. Especially in this game where you've had as many catches dropped as wickets taken, some bad captaincy/bowling, and some really good batting.

Yeah has to be said the English catching yesterday and the day before was, well, English level of catching.

Not helped by South Africa's latest attempt to kill cricket before Bavuma came in.

 

[Jono]

FTR I'm not trying to argue that this pitch isn't flat; just saying its a bit indisingenuous to blame the pitch for the current match situation. There are clearly loads of other factors - poor bowling, poor captaincy, poor catching, and some genuinely good batting. And bowlers get tired; the first 300 runs are always a lot harder to score than the last 300. It is significantly easier for a side to go from 400 to 600 than it is to go from 200 to 400.

No one was calling this a flat pitch when England were 223/5 on Day 1. Why start now simply because of the scoreline?

Because a cricket pitch is judged on how it behaves over the whole test.