***Official*** England in Pakistan

[tooextracool]

Except that's not true. Hayden isn't a great player of swing, but he can indeed play it well enough to have success as an opening batsman and THAT is all that matters. Swing isn't a zero-sum thing where a certain number of games have swinging conditions and a certain number don't. Take someone like Shoaib Akthar - a bowler Hayden has had a reasonable time against. Shoaib isn't a big swinger of the ball, but he swings it a bit when the ball is new and again when the ball is old in most games that he played. When Hayden scored what is probably the best innings of his career at Sharjah in 2002, Shoaib got the new ball to swing and Hayden survived it. Now, you can argue if you want that on a greentop he's useless, but what relevance does that have if he never plays on them? And, for that matter, given how little he has played in such conditions in his test career, his first class career where he played on them several times a year early on certainly deserves to be taken into account.

and the ball swung in sharjah you say? shoaib akthar rarely swings the ball conventionally, and i find it extremely ironic that he would manage to swing a ball when the conditions dont support swing extensively. as far as im concerned, hayden surviving 5-10 overs against marginal swing doesnt prove anything either, because thats hardly the point, as ive said a million times in the past if hayden were playing 20 years ago hes struggle to score a run in test match cricket. hell if hayden played 10 years ago(which he did), hed struggle to score a run in test match cricket, and strangely enough thats what happened.

 

[Pratters]

ybecause even though ive not watched most of those game, its not possible for the ball to not have swung or seamed in almost all of those.

I have not said I have not watched most of the games. Do not put words into my mouth.

Any way this arguement is going no where as neither your beliefs nor mine will change.

I hope we can concentrate on England vs Pakistan on this thread now rather than Hayden.

 

[Sanz]

if hayden were playing 20 years ago hes struggle to score a run in test match cricket. hell if hayden played 10 years ago(which he did), hed struggle to score a run in test match cricket

 

[honestbharani]

and the ball swung in sharjah you say? shoaib akthar rarely swings the ball conventionally, and i find it extremely ironic that he would manage to swing a ball when the conditions dont support swing extensively. as far as im concerned, hayden surviving 5-10 overs against marginal swing doesnt prove anything either, because thats hardly the point, as ive said a million times in the past if hayden were playing 20 years ago hes struggle to score a run in test match cricket. hell if hayden played 10 years ago(which he did), hed struggle to score a run in test match cricket, and strangely enough thats what happened.

Why do you keep saying that everyone will struggle to score a run? First it was Tendulkar, now it is Hayden. I don't think Hayden is all that good in swinging conditions myself and I do think that the average flatters him quite a bit, but honestly, even you or I can score ONE RUN, no matter what the conditions are.

 

[marc71178]

I think it's just a metaphorical thing rather than a strict thing.

 

[honestbharani]

yeah, I know that, but honestly, it gets annoying after a bit.

 

[Sanz]

Simon Jones ruled out of Pak Tour

Surgery to rule Jones out of Pakistan tour
By Howard Swains

Simon Jones, the England bowler, has been ruled out of the autumn tour to Pakistan after failing to recover from an ankle injury sustained in the fourth Ashes Test match at Trent Bridge.

Jones was one of England's star performers in the historic series triumph over Australia, but was forced to watch the fifth and final Test at the Oval after damaging his foot while fielding in Nottingham.

England were able to cling on for the series-winning draw in Jones's absence, but his presence will be keenly missed in the sub-continent where conditions are known to favour swing bowling. Jones became a master exponent of reverse swing this summer and he claimed 18 Australia wickets to set England a platform for the glorious 2-1 triumph.

The Glamorgan man's inclusion in England's touring party had been dependent on his recovery from the troublesome injury, but the England medical team have now revealed that Jones will require surgery.

"We have tried a number of measures to help Simon's ankle injury to settle but these have been unsuccessful and we are left with no alternative but to operate," said Peter Gregory, the chief medical officer of the England Cricket Board. "There should be sufficient time for Simon to regain fitness and hence become available for selection for the tour to India beginning in late February."

His omission will probably pave the way either for James Anderson to stake a claim for a place in the starting XI, or for the selectors to hand a debut to Chris Tremlett.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,426-1810988,00.html

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Does that change any of the predictions for this tour ? Mine remains same, England win it (2-1).

 

[twctopcat]

F***.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Udal to start for me then, with him at 9 then Hoggy & Harmo.

 

[Slow Love™]

as ive said a million times in the past if hayden were playing 20 years ago hes struggle to score a run in test match cricket. hell if hayden played 10 years ago(which he did), hed struggle to score a run in test match cricket, and strangely enough thats what happened.

LOL - I've never seen TEC crack a funny before.

 

[Pothas]

Udal to start for me then, with him at 9 then Hoggy & Harmo.

Yes i think that would be the most sensible selection. real shame about Jones lets hope this really is the last time he has to have an operation

 

[BoyBrumby]

Losing Jonah's a big blow. Of all our seamers he'd be the one with the best technique for the subcontinent. I see no mention of anyone being called up to replace him, which makes me think his participation was always more of a hope than an expectation. I thought that 17 players for such a short tour seemed excessive when they were named.

Hope Tremlett's knee is ok. If it's not, who's next in line? Plunkett?

 

[marc71178]

Udal to start for me then, with him at 9 then Hoggy & Harmo.

I was thinking more likely Loudon at 7, then Jones 8, Giles 9...

 

[aussie]

Well England chances of winning in the test in Pakistan has been decreased, i wonder who will replace him in the test side???

 

[SquidAU]

With Simon Jones out of the tour, this is where the rest of the England team can show they can go well without a main bowler.

Unlike Australia in 2003/04....

 

[superkingdave]

I was thinking more likely Loudon at 7, then Jones 8, Giles 9...

i very much doubt Louden would bat above Jones

 

[marc71178]

With Simon Jones out of the tour, this is where the rest of the England team can show they can go well without a main bowler.

Unlike Australia in 2003/04....

Except Australia in 2003/04 they were missing a whole attack rather than 1 bowler.

 

[marc71178]

i very much doubt Louden would bat above Jones

But the problem is if you pick him at 8 then you're effectively saying he's in as a bowler - which is ridiculous to be honest!

 

[honestbharani]

No Jones = a deep deep blow to England. I wonder if this will make them play the sort of defensive cricket they did last time. Hussain talked about how this England side might be a bit more proactive than the one he led, because of their confidence and because of the fact that the players have gotten better. It will be interesting to see their tactics.

 

[Neil Pickup]

i very much doubt Louden would bat above Jones

Never mind that, I'm not convinced he'll bowl above Vaughaney...