***Official*** England in Pakistan

[marc71178]

TBF none of the players Scaly listed actually play for Warwicks, so whatever point he was making it wasn't about county parochialism.

I don't think even he knows what point he is trying to make here.

As I said, there is clearly no English spinner remotely close to Giles (as shown by trying to champion Blackwell to take on the role), so Giles should be selected when fit.

 

[Blaze]

.

As I said, there is clearly no English spinner remotely close to Giles (as shown by trying to champion Blackwell to take on the role), so Giles should be selected when fit.

Why do England need a spinner?

 

[marc71178]

It's part of the team strategy - can hardly argue against it based on the run of games up to Pakistan, can you?

 

[Blaze]

It's part of the team strategy - can hardly argue against it based on the run of games up to Pakistan, can you?

Such an attitude is arrogant. There is always room for improvement in every team. England are far from the complete package. To simply state that Giles should stay in the team because the team he is playing for have been winning despite his poor stats is ludicrus.

I fail to see what part of the strategy he contributes to that someone else couldn't do. (ie another seamer who actually takes a wicket every now and then)

 

[luckyeddie]

Such an attitude is arrogant. There is always room for improvement in every team. England are far from the complete package. To simply state that Giles should stay in the team because the team he is playing for have been winning despite his poor stats is ludicrus.

I fail to see what part of the strategy he contributes to that someone else couldn't do. (ie another seamer who actually takes a wicket every now and then)

Marc's been consistent all along - Giles has been in the team all along purely because we haven't got a better twirly. If we were to go for a 5-man all-seam attack, our over rate would rival that of the West Indies in the 1980's.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I don't think even he knows what point he is trying to make here.

As I said, there is clearly no English spinner remotely close to Giles (as shown by trying to champion Blackwell to take on the role), so Giles should be selected when fit.

Which is a load of tripe because you're doing this based completely on FC records which is a particularly stupid way of judging finger spinners when some play on complete roads half the time and some play on bunsens half the time, then you've got that some players do better in Tests etc. than in FC - and you've got those who're fairly useless in Tests and good in FC (Giles, Ramprakash and others named above).

It's amazing how virtually every bowler in the England setup over a few years has improved substantially, yet Giles has gotten even worse (Anderson being the other exception, but he has an excuse). Just by having someone else get the benefit of the England setup they would surely turn out to be better than Giles, and Blackwell could at least do as well as Giles has over the past year - nearly 60 a wicket at 3.3+ an over.

 

[Jono]

It's part of the team strategy - can hardly argue against it based on the run of games up to Pakistan, can you?

If that's the case, Australia should never have dropped a player from 1999 to 2005.

 

[Salamuddin]

Marc's been consistent all along - Giles has been in the team all along purely because we haven't got a better twirly. If we were to go for a 5-man all-seam attack, our over rate would rival that of the West Indies in the 1980's.

I think you guys do have a better twirly than Giles. His name is Mudhsudhen Singh Panesar
.
He is a good bowler.

 

[greg]

I think you guys do have a better twirly than Giles. His name is Mudhsudhen Singh Panesar
.
He is a good bowler.

Is that actually based on anything? Still maybe he'll get into the frame when we play a test match at Wantage Rd

 

[greg]

In the great Giles vs fatty debate, I would have thought that Giles' batting is enough to clinch his place.

 

[Salamuddin]

Is that actually based on anything? Still maybe he'll get into the frame when we play a test match at Wantage Rd

Saqi says he's the best young spinner in England.

 

[marc71178]

Obviously those who say Giles has competition will provide examples of players who can come in and do the job he does to a better level.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Obviously those who say Giles is miles better than every other English spinner in Test cricket purely based on him getting wickets relatively cheaply in FC cricket before then being completely useless at Test level would realise that the burden of proof lies with the the said character(s) who say Giles is miles better than every other English spinner in Test cricket to prove that none of available spinners could possibly be as 'good' as Giles at Test cricket.

 

[Kweek]

Obviously those who say Giles is miles better than every other English spinner in Test cricket purely based on him getting wickets relatively cheaply in FC cricket before then being completely useless at Test level would realise that the burden of proof lies with the the said character(s) who say Giles is miles better than every other English spinner in Test cricket to prove that none of available spinners could possibly be as 'good' as Giles at Test cricket.

cheap go at Marc that.

 

[marc71178]

And rubbish as shown by the complete lack of any bowler to compete with him (no matter how many have been tried)

 

[Scaly piscine]

And rubbish as shown by the complete lack of any bowler to compete with him (no matter how many have been tried)

What, all 3 of them over the past 5 years - wow. You can't say Panesar, Blackwell, Brown, Keedy etc. would perform worse in Tests because it doesn't take much to perform better than a guy who has a career Test average of 39.60.

 

[marc71178]

So how exactly would any of those go batting at number 8 then?

 

[Scaly piscine]

So how exactly would any of those go batting at number 8 then?

Who knows, if Giles can bowl as first choice spinner or 4th/5th bowler...

 

[marc71178]

Giles does do that job yes.

Better than any option around.

 

[Scaly piscine]

No there are plenty of better 4th/5th bowlers out there, since his alternative means of attack is rendered meaningless by him being too expensive and just as useless on dry, worn pitches.