***Official*** England in Pakistan

[sqwerty]

Why take a spinner to India?

If the best is Giles I can't see the Indian batsmen having much trouble with him. May as well play 4 seamers plus Collingwood and bat Flintoff at 7 where he belongs

Plus - may as well use a part time offie like Vaughan. Look what Michael Clarke did over there in 2001 or whenever that series was.

 

[Beleg]

Kevin Pieterson was seen warming up in the first innings, but the captain didn't deign it fit to hand him the ball because there was pretty much nothing in the pitch for spinners. That doesn't mean he cannot be employed on more suitable pitches.

A fully fit Ashley Giles is a competent enough bowler under most conditions, but I personally doubt that he has in him to deliver on Indian pitches - against Indian batsmen. Contrary to the stereotype, not all of them turn a square mile on the second day.

And in view of England's recent collapses, do you really want a four-pronged tail?

 

[Barney Rubble]

And in view of England's recent collapses, do you really want a four-pronged tail?

I'd kill for a four-pronged tail. At the moment it's eight-pronged.

 

[aussie]

Why take a spinner to India?

If the best is Giles I can't see the Indian batsmen having much trouble with him. May as well play 4 seamers plus Collingwood and bat Flintoff at 7 where he belongs

well i dont know if u have ever seen Gilo bowl on turning tracks but he is pretty good.

 

[marc71178]

Think he might be batting a little high at 4, but he provides another spin option

D'oh!

Hangs head in shame.

Although I did actually mean Tommy Ball, once he gets out of the jungle.

 

[marc71178]

Didn't Vaughan tell him to warm up at one point, then change his mind?

He was warming up, but not sure how much of that was his ego making him do it.

 

[marc71178]

Plus - may as well use a part time offie like Vaughan. Look what Michael Clarke did over there in 2001 or whenever that series was.

And of course that Clarke had nothing to do with the pitch did it?

 

[ClownSymonds]

It was an exciting series overall.

I have become a solid fan of Iain Bell and Paul Collingwood after this series. Both of these batsmen delivered when it mattered and were it not for their contributions, England's batting performance would look bare.

England's quicks bowled really well throughout the series. Even though the conditions didn't suit them one bit, Flintoff and Harmisson in particular kept toiling on and on, never losing heart - hats off to them.

How soon you forget Collingwood's dismal display in the 1st Test. He scored runs on a very flat pitch through what really was 5 innings and still managed to start a massive collapse at the end. His efforts proved useless.

 

[marc71178]

And in view of England's recent collapses, do you really want a four-pronged tail?

Depends what you mean by a tail - the lower order are usually pretty handy. I don't think many (if any) lower orders would be able to cope with Shoaib's changes of pace and Danish's variety the way they've shown it on times in this series.

 

[PY]

How soon you forget Collingwood's dismal display in the 1st Test. He scored runs on a very flat pitch through what really was 5 innings and still managed to start a massive collapse at the end. His efforts proved useless.

You really do get boring sometimes.

You're like an anti-England version Richard and Scaly put together. Don't think I welcomed you by the way.

 

[SpeedKing]

I will now admit that Kevin Piteresen might need to show abit more restraint in these conditions. And Freddie as well, bacvk to good old-fashioned proper test cricket, i would say is the way forward on these pitches. Bowlers bowled with great heart. Still think the turning point was on that final morning in Multan. We bossed the game, and when they sensed blood, they overrawed us. Always been a fan of Ahktar, never liked Kaneria's attitude, but it seems to work, so good on him. they have to special bowlers their.

Shame Shioab might start winding down soon, as he has gone past 30, him and kaneria might have been the new McGrath-Warbe combo which has served the Aussies for the best part of 10 years. The whole Pakistani team made us look desparately average. When we bowled, their batters made the pitch look flat, when we batted, their bowlers made the ball talk. Too late now, but maybe we should have used Anderson, he always swings the ball, and has good memories of playing Pakistan.

 

[SpeedKing]

That ranks with the worst decisions ever!

Rudi has got absolutely no idea!

You know what they say, you make your own luck, if you deserve, it, it will go your way. I remember one eveining when when Hoggy and Jones ripped out the Assie top order thanks, to the rub of the green on some decisions. What goes arround comes around. I knew it would come back to haunt us.

 

[SpeedKing]

Odd wickets these, maybe we need to employ a Pakistani next time to show us how to play on them. They swung the ball, we didn't, they made us look like plodders when batting, Quite odd. Yeha, and we do need a spinner who can create some pressure. just the one though. I think tow spinners is too negative.

 

[ClownSymonds]

You really do get boring sometimes.

You're like an anti-England version Richard and Scaly put together. Don't think I welcomed you by the way.

Well what do you want? I'm just telling it as it is. Collingwood didn't do very well at all. If he was out at the times he should've been out, you'd see 4 very mediocre scores and nothing of note in the field. And it doesn't do any good to disregard the fact that he looks to have done well largely due to luck when evaluating his performance. And don't group me together with that unhinged loon.

 

[Beleg]

Should have been's and would have been's and could have been's....

The fact is, as it stands right now, Collingwood played an excellent innings - just because it contained chances that should have been taken/given doesn't mean it wasn't a valiant effort or a joy to watch.

 

[TT Boy]

so who is going to bowl spin in India then?

KP or the captain just to kill a few overs, what’s the point of playing Udal or Giles, their not batsman and their not doing their job with the ball, so no need for them. The Indians play Shane Warne with contempt, so it’s scary to think what they would do to those boys.

 

[TT Boy]

Because the team make-up only allows for 5 batsmen plus Flintoff, Jones and the 4 bowlers.

The only way to fit them all in is to pick 6 and drop one of the seamers, which is easy if Jones isn't fit, but if he is, then who goes then?

Hoggard on Indian dust bowls, he be lined up and destroyed. Sure he gives 100% and all but in reality if there is no help for the bowlers of the pitch, his useless. His not got a great deal of variety unlike say a contemporary of his Rana Naved a bowler who can mix it up and look potent even on the most placid of wickets. Hoggard will be immensely valuable come next summer in England but in this part of the world, there is no place or need for him.

 

[social]

In Indian conditions he's more than likely our best option (assuming he is fit)

Any attack needs balance, and since we want a 5 man attack and a 5th seamer is a complete waste of time, spin is the 5th man.

IMO, assuming full fitness, I'd not be too unhappy at the following 11 for India:

Trescothick
Vaughan
Strauss
Ball
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones
Giles
Jones
Harmison

Not a bad team BUT only leaves 4 main bowlers, 2 of whom will be making come-backs from operations. I dont think the selectors would risk it.

I think you'll find it will be the same team as in the second test except for the substitution of Udal with Jones/Plunkett.

 

[shaka]

More Dan's world : (From http://sport.iafrica.com/columns/dan_world/648884.htm):

Watching England flounder in Pakistan early this morning before going to bed, two comparisons sprung to mind. The first is that Naved-ul-Hasan is a Pakistani Stewart Cink, an absolute dead ringer for the American golfer. And the second is that Inzamam's batting bares remarkable similarity to Ernie Els's golf: two big, languid men who never rush themselves, and have an easy and grace that belies their size.

At one point in England's first innings, Inzi was sufficiently overjoyed at a wicket being taken to break into something approaching a shuffle, the equivalent of a lung-bursting sprint in anyone else. But the Pakistani's general economy of movement differs in his batting, where his timing and strokeplay are mesmerising.
He's giving further credence to the school of thought that suggests the mid-30s are batting's golden years; Els will be hoping that something similar applies to golf as he gets back into the game post-operation

 

[a10khan]

Everyone was assuming that most of the pitches in Pakistan would be raging turners, yet they were proven wrong and your pacers showed that fast bowlers could achieve a measure of success on them. Given the indian batsmen's skill against spinners in general, as well as the fraility of your batting line-up and Jones' ability to reverse-swing the ball, I think the best English combination would be 6 batsmen + keeper + Flintoff + the next three best bowlers. Michael Vaughan and Pieterson can do an adequate enough job in the spin department between themselves - sort of like Shoiab Malik.

Since quite some time now Pak have stopped preparing turners. They are mostly flat tracks with some assistance to pacers in the 1st couple days. The Faisalabad track though was a shame.