***Official*** England in Pakistan

[Top_Cat]

Pakistan are 199 ahead; I'd say that anything greater will be an impossible chase without some sensational batting. I saw most of today and the deck is playing funny-buggers with quite a few balls keeping low. Guys like Shoaib and Rana, on a deck which is shooting-through, will be very tough to play because they generally bowl a middle-stump line.

I reckon Pakistan are favourites right now. On a decent pitch, 200+ on a 5th day chase isn't easy. On this pitch, I dunno if England are even in with a show. Especially with Inzi still there and quite clearly in excellent touch. And if I was him, there's no way I'd consider declaring at all; make the opposition bowl you out because if they do it too late, the game is a drawn and your team is stll 1-0 up. If they do it quickly, it's a tough run-chase as it is and you have enough time to go 2-0 up and win the series.

 

[Top_Cat]

Also, I notice that Flintoff has bowled plenty of overs in this series and it's taking its toll physically; he was down on pace before he warmed up properly in this match. I don't think he can sustain opening the bowling or even first-change AND batting top-6 or another break-down is around the corner. I mean, with him bowling so very well right now, it must be difficult to not chuck him the ball but there should be some management of him too.

 

[grecian]

Also, I notice that Flintoff has bowled plenty of overs in this series and it's taking its toll physically; he was down on pace before he warmed up properly in this match. I don't think he can sustain opening the bowling or even first-change AND batting top-6 or another break-down is around the corner. I mean, with him bowling so very well right now, it must be difficult to not chuck him the ball but there should be some management of him too.

Good point, the English management have got to sort this out. The amount of overs hes getting through is shocking. Harmison has got to take the new-ball with Hoggy. I know Freddy can do a great job as opening bowler, but he can do a great job at any time: quick explosive bowling in short spells; good containing seam to create pressure when batsmen are on top; vicious reverse swingers when the ball gets older. Yet clearly he can't bowl all the time no matter how much our captains want him to. We need to pick a 4th seamer, even if it is Anderson, or Freddies gonna be bowled into the ground, with a tour to India to come too. We miss Simon Jones badly.

Still good performance from England today, and we seem to be just about crawling our way into this match. Almost certain it will be a draw, but theres chances all round now!!

 

[Scaly piscine]

Flintoff certainly is being overbowled (as far as what he should be bowling, physically), I hope he mainly just bats in the ODIs, doing the odd 5 overs here and there when England desperately need it.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yep certainly. He's bowled almost a third of the overs in this innings so far for crying out loud; how can he do that and then bat top-6, especially since I reckon England will really need him tomorrow?

As for Harmi, what's with his aversion to bowling with the new-ball? He did it pretty well at Lords and personally, I don't think a fast-bowler who should be so suited to bowling with the new-ball should be allowed to just refuse it and give it to the all-rounder. It, to me, is shirking one's responsibilities a bit. Especially with the additional pressure on Freddie to be a top-6 batter and score tons, bowl like the wind and now take the new-ball too as well as bowl quick with reverse-swing later in the innings. He's taking everything on with no complaints and bowling himself into the ground while Harmi is picking and choosing. On a tough tour too. Not right.

 

[wpdavid]

Yep certainly. He's bowled almost a third of the overs in this innings so far for crying out loud; how can he do that and then bat top-6, especially since I reckon England will really need him tomorrow?

As for Harmi, what's with his aversion to bowling with the new-ball? He did it pretty well at Lords and personally, I don't think a fast-bowler who should be so suited to bowling with the new-ball should be allowed to just refuse it and give it to the all-rounder. It, to me, is shirking one's responsibilities a bit. Especially with the additional pressure on Freddie to be a top-6 batter and score tons, bowl like the wind and now take the new-ball too as well as bowl quick with reverse-swing later in the innings. He's taking everything on with no complaints and bowling himself into the ground while Harmi is picking and choosing. On a tough tour too. Not right.

Is that actually what's happening, or is it a captain & manager's decision?

 

[SJS]

... also tailenders have done well on this pitch so far anyway. .....

Didn't know there were pitches for tail enders

Kidding

I agree Pakistan are sitting pretty but I suspect Inzy will play safe and bat on till he feels England have no hope even of a one day chase.

I hope he doesnt do that but I suspect he might. That may ruin Pakistan's chances of winning more than anything else.

 

[Top_Cat]

Is that actually what's happening, or is it a captain & manager's decision?

I've heard of him refusing it before. He opened in the first Test first-innings so I've no idea why he wouldn't be able to do it again.

If it is a management decision, it's a bit rich; it increases Freddie's workload to (in my opinion) unacceptable levels.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm under the impression that it's a strategic decision as Flintoff swings the ball more than Harmison and it swings for about five minutes in Pakistan. Still, he keeps batting like this it's not really an all-round workload is it?

 

[Pratters]

Yep certainly. He's bowled almost a third of the overs in this innings so far for crying out loud; how can he do that and then bat top-6, especially since I reckon England will really need him tomorrow?

But could England have reached the current position without Flintoff bowling that much.

 

[wpdavid]

I've heard of him refusing it before. He opened in the first Test first-innings so I've no idea why he wouldn't be able to do it again.

If it is a management decision, it's a bit rich; it increases Freddie's workload to (in my opinion) unacceptable levels.

Yes, I totally agree about Fred's overall workload. I do think there's been times over the last 18 months when Vaughan has overprotected both Hoggard & Harmi when things haven't been in their favour and, like you, I'm worried about Fred getting knackered. I was just surprised to read that Harmi was actually refusing to open and wondered where you heard that.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'm under the impression that it's a strategic decision as Flintoff swings the ball more than Harmison and it swings for about five minutes in Pakistan. Still, he keeps batting like this it's not really an all-round workload is it?

Indeed, although the first new ball hasn't really worked for England, Pakistan's opening pair have put on 3 half-century partnerships and a 31 when Harmison was forced to come on early and took a wicket with his second ball.

 

[pakster]

But could England have reached the current position without Flintoff bowling that much.

Probably not. He's been sensational in the second innings.

 

[Top_Cat]

But could England have reached the current position without Flintoff bowling that much.

Maybe not. But long-term, if he gets taken out of the next Ashes series, it might affect their chances quite a bit in that one. Enough to lose the series even. Gotta weigh it up I guess.

Yes, I totally agree about Fred's overall workload. I do think there's been times over the last 18 months when Vaughan has overprotected both Hoggard & Harmi when things haven't been in their favour and, like you, I'm worried about Fred getting knackered. I was just surprised to read that Harmi was actually refusing to open and wondered where you heard that.

I've read it before. Can't quite remember where. Don't think it was a petulant gesture or anything but that he didn't feel he was as good with the new-ball as he was later in the innings. To my mind, for the benefit of Freddie and the rest of the team, he should be taking steps to correct that, not avoid it.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I've read it before. Can't quite remember where. Don't think it was a petulant gesture or anything but that he didn't feel he was as good with the new-ball as he was later in the innings. To my mind, for the benefit of Freddie and the rest of the team, he should be taking steps to correct that, not avoid it.

The new ball is usually an asset, so usually other people are happy to bowl with it anyway. Flintoff taking the new ball doesn't increase his workload - bowling lots of long spells increases his workload.

 

[Pratters]

Maybe not. But long-term, if he gets taken out of the next Ashes series, it might affect their chances quite a bit in that one. Enough to lose the series even. Gotta weigh it up I guess.

Yes I agree with you. Overloading a faster bowler can be dangerous if done regularly as it can result in a long term injury. Also it may effect future test matches in a series in an extreme case.

But in this match what option did England have. In the first inning Flintoff was much more economical than the other bowlers - specially spinners who could have bowled larger number of overs had they not been so expensive. In the second he was taking breakthroughs.

 

[Top_Cat]

The new ball is usually an asset, so usually other people are happy to bowl with it anyway. Flintoff taking the new ball doesn't increase his workload - bowling lots of long spells increases his workload.

Bowling with the newie does increase it, though - he's still expected to do his old-ball work. If he was replacing the new-ball bowler, that'd be one thing. But doing that then expecting him to reverse-swing the old-ball is asking too much.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I just read on another site that supposedly, Shoaib's bizarre "chicken" celebration the other day on dismissing KP has been explained. Apparently KP asked him what it was all about, and Shoaib's response?

"It's because you walk like a chicken. Did you like it?"

 

[Jono]

LOL! The two showman collide

 

[Beleg]

Heh.

Might have an element of fabrication in it, though.

Regarding Flintoff's speed: I personally was surprised to find that at one stage of the game (and after quite a few overs), his fastest ball had been at about 86 mph. IMO, this just isn't cutting it on this pitch, specially with the type of length Flintoff usually balls. During tea, I suppose, he realized that and upped him pace to some extent. I noticed that the ball he bowled immediately after Afridi's wicket was at 144 kph and it swung in pretty viciously - Akmal was lucky that it was pitched some way outside the off-stump.

My point is that England should concentrate on bowling fast here. Inzamam has always had a problem with fast reversing deliveries swinging in from around the off-stump. You keep bowling at around 140-145 k, maintaining an off-stump line and with a little bit of luck create a delivery which is nigh on unplayable.

Anyone else noticed the ammount of overs Shoaib bowled in the first innings? 27, IIRC. A very good sign for the Pakistani team. (and he was pretty unlucky not to get at least a couple of more wickets. I thought Giles' and specially Bell's tackling of his yorkers was superb)