***Official*** England in Pakistan

[tooextracool]

i'd pick tremlett, key,read(iffy on this one) and swann.
the english selectors will probably pick batty,prior, key and swann.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Why Panesar of all people? He's second in line to Jason Brown at Northants and any spinner can get shedloads on a bunsen...

He's young, and from what I hear of him can get a decent rip on it - can't bat, but I'd wager he'd take more wickets than Batty.

Just a suggestion, though - these selectors have been known to spring the odd surprise in the past.

 

[greg]

I don't see the problem with rejigging the order to be honest. If Joyce was included at Key's expense (which would help combat Kaneria and Mushy if he plays - left-hander), then he could come in for whoever got injured, and if it was one of the openers, Vaughan could easily move back up. It's not like we don't have another opener in the team.

Here's a scenario, though - Vaughan gets injured and misses one Test. Who bats 3? Joyce? Bell? Pietersen?

Personally, I'd break with tradition and give Geraint Jones a go there. He strikes me as the kind of batsman who could benefit from a move up the order - why not try it out?

You questioned my claim that the order couldn't be rijigged, and then made my point. If Vaughan moved up to opening you would still have to find someone to bat at 3!

 

[Barney Rubble]

You questioned my claim that the order couldn't be rijigged, and then made my point. If Vaughan moved up to opening you would still have to find someone to bat at 3!

Well my point was, we have a few batsmen who could do a good job at 3 - it's just choosing which one that's the difficulty. It's not like we're short of alternatives, which would be a good reason not to want to rejig the order. Rejigging the order isn't a problem, it just requires some thinking.

 

[greg]

Well my point was, we have a few batsmen who could do a good job at 3 - it's just choosing which one that's the difficulty. It's not like we're short of alternatives, which would be a good reason not to want to rejig the order. Rejigging the order isn't a problem, it just requires some thinking.

I don't think Bell should be at 4, let alone 3. Pietersen at 4 is as high as he should go. I certainly wouldn't be putting a test debutant at 3 (although anyway my post was actually in response to the suggestion on Sky that Collingwood should be the only reserve batsman - he shouldn't be batting higher than 6 (and that at a push) )

All seems a bit silly when we've got Key.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I don't think Bell should be at 4, let alone 3. Pietersen at 4 is as high as he should go. I certainly wouldn't be putting a test debutant at 3 (although anyway my post was actually in response to the suggestion on Sky that Collingwood should be the only reserve batsman - he shouldn't be batting higher than 6 (and that at a push) )

All seems a bit silly when we've got Key.

Why do you keep making out that Key is a reliable quality batsman that could be the saviour of England's batting?

 

[greg]

Why do you keep making out that Key is a reliable quality batsman that could be the saviour of England's batting?

I didn't say that. I said we needed cover for the top order, and Key was the obvious choice (none of the other batsmen being talked about for a tour place are top order batsmen).

 

[BoyBrumby]

I didn't say that. I said we needed cover for the top order, and Key was the obvious choice (none of the other batsmen being talked about for a tour place are top order batsmen).

Owais Shah bats 3 for Middlesex as often as not. I can't help but think Fat Bob would be a step backwards.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Owais Shah bats 3 for Middlesex as often as not. I can't help but think Fat Bob would be a step backwards.

And the player with 283 ODI runs @ 21.76, rivalling Vikram Solanki for "worst ODI specialist batsman of the 21st century", isn't a backwards step?

 

[superkingdave]

And the player with 283 ODI runs @ 21.76, rivalling Vikram Solanki for "worst ODI specialist batsman of the 21st century", isn't a backwards step?

considering we are picking a test squad, i don't see much relavence, even if i did know how to spell it

 

[Magrat Garlick]

considering we are picking a test squad, i don't see much relavence, even if i did know how to spell it

The relevance is that he's had his shot at international cricket and failed rather spectacularly - at least Key has a double ton (and nothing else, I'll readily admit). I don't think anyone would select Vikram for Tests regardless of how his 2006 and 2007 seasons pan out...

 

[Scaly piscine]

I didn't say that. I said we needed cover for the top order, and Key was the obvious choice (none of the other batsmen being talked about for a tour place are top order batsmen).

Key isn't the obvious choice because he's rubbish and is unlikely to have the stamina anyway. England don't particularly need a true top order batsman (especially a bad one) as cover in a country like Pakistan, they just need a good batsman as cover.

 

[BoyBrumby]

And the player with 283 ODI runs @ 21.76, rivalling Vikram Solanki for "worst ODI specialist batsman of the 21st century", isn't a backwards step?

What Dave said, basically!

Mind you, played a v decent (and timely) OD knock against Lancs today. He & Dalrymple (sp?) thrashed 23 between them off one Symonds (in offie mode) over: 6, 4, 1 (brings Dalrymple onto strike), 4, 4, 4. Dalrymple may be a dark horse for the ODI squad, I rate him higher than Louden as a batter.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Key isn't the obvious choice because he's rubbish and is unlikely to have the stamina anyway. England don't particularly need a true top order batsman (especially a bad one) as cover in a country like Pakistan, they just need a good batsman as cover.

That was my argument - Key just isn't that good. Joyce's weight of runs this year deserves selection, so he should go.

And Key would, most likely, die in the heat. Or come back looking like a shorter version of Harmison.

 

[superkingdave]

The relevance is that he's had his shot at international cricket and failed rather spectacularly - at least Key has a double ton (and nothing else, I'll readily admit). I don't think anyone would select Vikram for Tests regardless of how his 2006 and 2007 seasons pan out...

had his shot as a One day player when he is clearly much more suited to the longer form of the game....note that Key averages 10 in ODI's because he isn't suited to that form either.

 

[greg]

Key isn't the obvious choice because he's rubbish and is unlikely to have the stamina anyway. England don't particularly need a true top order batsman (especially a bad one) as cover in a country like Pakistan, they just need a good batsman as cover.

Before this argument gets too heated, could i just reaffirm that my post starting all this was in a response to the suggestion on Sky that the only reserve batsman on the trip should be Collingwood. I've no problem with someone arguing that we should take a batsman other than Key who has the ability to bat at the top of the order (and batting in certain positions is more than just about the conditions in which you are playing, so i don't agree that you can just pick any a batsman used to batting in the middle order and stick him into no3. "because it's Pakistan"). But if you only have Collingwood then you won't have that batsman.

 

[BoyBrumby]

had his shot as a One day player when he is clearly much more suited to the longer form of the game....note that Key averages 10 in ODI's because he isn't suited to that form either.

He's also maturing as a player. He's averaged over 50 in each of the last 2 FC seasons (in an interview I read he credited a coaching session with Azharuddin for the turn around, hope technique is all he picked up from Mohammad! ) & was marked out as a player with potential at a v early age. 27 may be a bit old for a prodigy, but it could be that he's finally about to fulfil his huge potential.

I haven't looked it up, so I don't know for sure, but I wonder what Fred's ODI stats looked like after 15 games...?

 

[Barney Rubble]

I haven't looked it up, so I don't know for sure, but I wonder what Fred's ODI stats looked like after 15 games...?

Pretty damn poor, I'd wager. Likewise his Test stats.

 

[superkingdave]

Pretty damn poor, I'd wager. Likewise his Test stats.

17 with the bat and 35 with the ball

 

[Magrat Garlick]

He's also maturing as a player. He's averaged over 50 in each of the last 2 FC seasons (in an interview I read he credited a coaching session with Azharuddin for the turn around, hope technique is all he picked up from Mohammad! ) & was marked out as a player with potential at a v early age. 27 may be a bit old for a prodigy, but it could be that he's finally about to fulfil his huge potential.

I haven't looked it up, so I don't know for sure, but I wonder what Fred's ODI stats looked like after 15 games...?

170 runs @ 17, 10 wickets @ 35.42.

OK, I'll shut up. He's only a replacement anyway.