GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
This idea that Ben Stokes ‘doesn’t seem to fancy it’ is utterly absurd.
Terribly disappointing performance since Multan 1 though. Some serious work to do before NZ
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*OFFICIAL* England in Pakistan 2024
- Thread starter chris.hinton
- Start date
Terribly disappointing performance since Multan 1 though. Some serious work to do before NZ
MW1304
Cricketer Of The Year
Not sure it's just an idea at this point, it's pretty much proven that he has no clue how to approach a turning track, between this and India.
You could say it's just a technical fault but he's bullied spin enough in the past that I don't think that's a fair excuse. To me, he lacks the clarity of thought and conviction he has in abundance in pretty much all other conditions. It's a mental lacking.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
That’s not the same as ‘not fancying it’ though?
quincywagstaff
International Debutant
How often has a side won a 3 Test series (or 4/5 Test series even) after losing the 1st Test by an innings? Can't think of any tbh.
Expect they will be decent with the bat in New Zealand. Is the bowling that will be a worry.
flibbertyjibber
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well we won't sack them. So stop being so melodramatic.
We lost as we aren't that good. Simple as. I said it in the summer and got slaughtered for it
Hey @Red_Ink_Squid I don't think anyone has noted that England pretty much only win when Woakes plays.
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Yeah, like the first two matches of the Ashes last year, the last couple of matches here don't really count.
Non-Woakes Tests are non-cannon.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Woakes and Atkinson likely take the new ball, Carse or Potts as third seamer?
flibbertyjibber
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Atkinson, Woakes, Carse, Wood and Potts should do OK in the conditions.
Wood still out isn't he?
LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
A more disappointing loss than Multan 2 as we won the toss and got off to a good start, and even 267 ao didn’t seem so bad when we had them 7 down. Don’t want to be too blasé about it, we were thoroughly exposed against spin, but I don’t think we win that under the previous regime neither, when we dock points for producing wickets that aren’t even that spinny by world standards and force our spinners to play during the fringes of the summer we are setting up our players to fail in conditions like these
ImpatientLime
International Regular
Woakes will not go well in New Zealand
Guess they will all get a game at some point. Hope Stokes is actually properly fit, think we are past the stage where having a half version of him is worth it.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Obviously the batting was poor but we looked on course for a 50 run lead, Pakistan overturning that and then some was where the game was lost.
Pakistan lower order runs were hugely important in both these games.
LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
You do wonder how much of our utterly woeful second innings was scoreboard pressure, if we’d had a small lead, or even parity, would we have done better?
Hugely disappointing to crumble as we did but we need to take our medicine on this.
As others have said, it appears to me that whilst England are bolder and look to put pressure back on the opposition, there’s an inflexibility to what the do. They appear to do their homework and have “a plan”- the sweep shot being this tours obvious starting point- but then the moment Pakistan introduced new players into the team it was as if we were rabbits in headlights and we haven’t got a set way to play this guy (ie Sajid). That to me shows we might be over coaching and that we need to consider how we create an onus to adapt.
I completely understand what Brendan Mccullum has tried to do in the mental side - he’s had to give players the feeling of no consequence if they get out simply because they don’t execute a shot well- however players should have some accountability as his era goes on. 2 years in now I’d expect us to begin to just smooth the edges of our approach, which by and large should continue to be, but just refined to include some game management flexibility that respects the conditions, challenge of particular bowlers, and the position in the match.
The amount of 100s just given away from Crawley, Duckett, Smith to name but a few after they’ve done the hard work and got well ahead of the scoreboard just staggers me. They need to learn from Joe Root in that regard- 0.5 runs a ball is perfectly acceptable when you’ve got the opposition under the cosh at 5 or 6 an over until that point.
This isn’t criticising them as they both played brilliantly, but when you look at Smith and Atkinson in the first innings- they’d got Pakistan reeling mentally- heads were going having got England 110/6 and then seeing us knock out a 100 partnership. With so much time in the game, we didn’t need to give Pakistan anything to hang on to yet we gave some soft wickets away there and IIRC Smith at an awful time just before Tea. These are moments where England need to understand their position in the game.
A bit of Aussie ruthlessness I guess!
Anyway all the England chat aside, a huge congratulations to Pakistan and Jason Gillespie as they had to take some real criticism after that first test. They have dug in, come out fighting and found England out. A much needed series win and perhaps this can ignite test cricket over there again.
As others have said, it appears to me that whilst England are bolder and look to put pressure back on the opposition, there’s an inflexibility to what the do. They appear to do their homework and have “a plan”- the sweep shot being this tours obvious starting point- but then the moment Pakistan introduced new players into the team it was as if we were rabbits in headlights and we haven’t got a set way to play this guy (ie Sajid). That to me shows we might be over coaching and that we need to consider how we create an onus to adapt.
I completely understand what Brendan Mccullum has tried to do in the mental side - he’s had to give players the feeling of no consequence if they get out simply because they don’t execute a shot well- however players should have some accountability as his era goes on. 2 years in now I’d expect us to begin to just smooth the edges of our approach, which by and large should continue to be, but just refined to include some game management flexibility that respects the conditions, challenge of particular bowlers, and the position in the match.
The amount of 100s just given away from Crawley, Duckett, Smith to name but a few after they’ve done the hard work and got well ahead of the scoreboard just staggers me. They need to learn from Joe Root in that regard- 0.5 runs a ball is perfectly acceptable when you’ve got the opposition under the cosh at 5 or 6 an over until that point.
This isn’t criticising them as they both played brilliantly, but when you look at Smith and Atkinson in the first innings- they’d got Pakistan reeling mentally- heads were going having got England 110/6 and then seeing us knock out a 100 partnership. With so much time in the game, we didn’t need to give Pakistan anything to hang on to yet we gave some soft wickets away there and IIRC Smith at an awful time just before Tea. These are moments where England need to understand their position in the game.
A bit of Aussie ruthlessness I guess!
Anyway all the England chat aside, a huge congratulations to Pakistan and Jason Gillespie as they had to take some real criticism after that first test. They have dug in, come out fighting and found England out. A much needed series win and perhaps this can ignite test cricket over there again.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
I mean, who knows, but even the timing worked in their favour thanks to them extending their innings. With a lead, or a sub 20-30 deficit, we go out with a clearer mindset I’d say.