**Official** England in New Zealand

[TT Boy]

Martin is the oldest of that trio, so most likely Southee will replace him. Perhaps sooner rather than later.

Southee can also bat, can he not?

 

[Prince EWS]

Southee can also bat, can he not?

Yeah. He'd still bat eleven if he replaced Martin once Franklin was back though, so it's not like his batting is particularly needed in that lower order.

 

[Blakey]

Bracewell has indicated that Southee will play if Mills in unfit. Gillespie it appears will make way for Patel.

Braces says the Black Caps need to try and match the English bowlers who get a tremendous amount of swing. I'd suggest in that case, Southee be introduced regardless of how Mills shapes up, because (shudder to say this as he was a great mate) he moves the ball off the pitch much more than he swings it.

 

[Blakey]

Yeah. Number 1 was 16 years old and from Auckland Boys. Second may have been 16, but possibly 17 and was also from Auckland Boys.

Its good that NZC are taking an interest in proper pace bowling, though there is a worry that these kids at 16 years of age are putting a fair dose of stress on their bodies and may not last that long. I noticed that the ECB had brought in regulations limiting the number of overs that pace bowlers can bowl per day and per spell up until the age of 18 (as I recall) to prevent early burn out. A similar initiative may be required here if these kids are going to be the next Shane Bond, but in general I'm in favour of encouraging pace.

How about a leg spinning comp? Or the biggest U16 swinger in the land? Take that how you will...

 

[Blakey]

And wasn't last year's winner Trent Boult, he of NZ under-19 fame?

Exactly what I was thinking. Damn those gimmick's actually producing results.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

How about a leg spinning comp? Or the biggest U16 swinger in the land? Take that how you will...

A bit harder to judge, I reckon.

 

[Woodster]

I can tell you all you need to know about Wellington club cricket. I've played for a couple of clubs and I know which are the friendly ones, which are the good ones, which ones have the best coaches and facilities and which ones I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Depends what floats your boat. Contact me on yahoo messenger, or by e-mail if you like. Wellington's a great little city though. How old are you?

Heath, sent you an e-mail couple of days ago regarding this, did you receive it or has it gone to the wrong address ?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Heath, sent you an e-mail couple of days ago regarding this, did you receive it or has it gone to the wrong address ?

Ah - sorry mate. I haven't actually checked my e-mail in a couple of days. I've been busy building my website, so even though I've been on-line, I've been ignoring e-mail/MSN. I will check this evening after cricket and send you a reply.

 

[Woodster]

Ah - sorry mate. I haven't actually checked my e-mail in a couple of days. I've been busy building my website, so even though I've been on-line, I've been ignoring e-mail/MSN. I will check this evening after cricket and send you a reply.

No problems mate, was just making sure that I'd sent it to the right place. Just send me a reply whenever you get the chance. Cheers.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yes, a fine idea, IMO. 7 per spell for 17-year-olds, 6 per spell for 16-year-olds, 5 for 15-year-olds, 4 for 14-year-olds and under. Not entirely sure of the exact date, but it was certainly after 1999, when I routinely bowled 4 overs off the reel for our u13s and would've bowled more if the games hadn't been 20-over ones. Can't remember the per-day figures TBH, but don't (yet!) need to as I haven't captained.

Or, the real figures:

AGE	PER SPELL	PER DAY
U19	7 overs		21 overs
U17	6 overs		18 overs
U15	5 overs		10 overs
U13	4 overs		8 overs

 

[Goughy]

I would be interested to see what research those recommended figures are based on.

What research has concluded that a 16 yr old should bowl 6 in a spell rather than another number?

There is an element of common sense in these numbers but I think they are plucked out of the air.

So someone like a Paul Jarvis who debuted for Yorks at 16 (I believe, have not checked) would be bound by this in the County Championship? and if a touring side brought a 17 yr old bowler these rules would also apply to Test cricket?

I dont mind these too much but it misses the major issue of indoor nets and the hardness of the surface and bowling all day in practice.

My longest was a 21 over spell as an 18 yr old. Something like 5 before lunch and 16 after. Got a great deal of satisfaction from that. I think the limits going upto U19 are too high. Fine in the young age groups but dont baby adults.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I would be interested to see what research those recommended figures are based on.

What research has concluded that a 16 yr old should bowl 6 in a spell rather than another number?

There is an element of common sense in these numbers but I think they are plucked out of the air.

So someone like a Paul Jarvis who debuted for Yorks at 16 (I believe, have not checked) would be bound by this in the County Championship? and if a touring side brought a 17 yr old bowler these rules would also apply to Test cricket?

I dont mind these too much but it misses the major issue of indoor nets and the hardness of the surface and bowling all day in practice.

My longest was a 21 over spell as an 18 yr old. Something like 5 before lunch and 16 after. Got a great deal of satisfaction from that. I think the limits going upto U19 are too high. Fine in the young age groups but dont baby adults.

The directives apply at all levels up to but not including first class (and I assume List A) cricket.

There are figures in the latest Child Welfare documents talking about absorption on concrete and indoor nets compared to grass pitches. Said documents are currently under the front passenger seat of my car, however. The bowling directives are intended to include net practice, too.

 

[Goughy]

Looking at U'13 I see the max is 8 overs in a day.

Looking through the last U 13s team I coached we had games lasting over 50 overs. It was 'time' cricket and the most we bowled in a game was 54.

In such intense comp (where frankly losing is a big deal) you cant bowl 7 bowlers a near full compliment. If a guy is going well he can have around 12 IMO.

8 is just too few as a set limit for 'time' games and a little over protective IMO. I dont mind the limit to spells. 4 is fine by me and it makes good sense to give them time to stretch, rehydrate and rest before exhausting themselves. The limit in the day is too low though IMO.

Also how can they say its unsafe in club cricket but ok at FC level? Especially for over 18s who are adults.

 

[Days of Grace]

All depends on the economy of the bowler's action as to how many overs they can bowl i.m.o.

If you have an action like McGrath you can go all day.

If you have an action like Bond or Malinga, you might be stretching it to bowl 7 overs.

 

[Julian87]

Had this argument ina grand final recently. In Australia it is only a recommendation/guideline.

 

[Prince EWS]

Had this argument ina grand final recently. In Australia it is only a recommendation/guideline.

It's an official rule in some assocations.

 

[kokomo]

Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed
I can tell you all you need to know about Wellington club cricket. I've played for a couple of clubs and I know which are the friendly ones, which are the good ones, which ones have the best coaches and facilities and which ones I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Just out of interest heathy boy.... what are these clubs? im a playing member of one id like to know if it "floats your boat"?

 

[Craig]

Really enjoying this series myself and I've been impreesed with young Broad, I hope tEngland don't overbowl him and wreck. Pretty impressed with how he played in the ODI in Auckland, when you come up against Jacob Oram in that sort of mood in a disgrace of a cricketing ground, plenty of bowlers who have been around a lot longer have done worse IMO.

Enjoyed Jesse Ryder's batting form, just that he is still a ****wit and also at times is Brendon McCullum's IQ about the same as Test batting average? Yes IMO.

 

[Richard]

Or, the real figures:

AGE	PER SPELL	PER DAY
U19	7 overs		21 overs
U17	6 overs		18 overs
U15	5 overs		10 overs
U13	4 overs		8 overs

ITSTL, goes up to u19 these days? That certainly means it's changed recently, as I bowled 13 overs off the reel in 2003 at the age of 17.

(Either that or rules were being broken )

 

[Neil Pickup]

Looking at U'13 I see the max is 8 overs in a day.

Looking through the last U 13s team I coached we had games lasting over 50 overs. It was 'time' cricket and the most we bowled in a game was 54.

In such intense comp (where frankly losing is a big deal) you cant bowl 7 bowlers a near full compliment. If a guy is going well he can have around 12 IMO.

8 is just too few as a set limit for 'time' games and a little over protective IMO. I dont mind the limit to spells. 4 is fine by me and it makes good sense to give them time to stretch, rehydrate and rest before exhausting themselves. The limit in the day is too low though IMO.

Also how can they say its unsafe in club cricket but ok at FC level? Especially for over 18s who are adults.

These directives only apply to fast bowlers, where "fast" is defined as a bowler whom a wicket keeper of the same age group would usually stand up to. So in a time game, spinners have a big job to do.