**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[Bahnz]

Consistency of selection is one consideration. Absolutely, you don't want to be chopping and changing, and guys who have performed in situations like Nicholls did, and Blundell did as well deserve some level of leniency at the selection table. But nor do you want these guys to believe they can put up the odd good performance and go as long as some of our batsmen have without centuries. This might be a team game, but it's also an individual pursuit. Competition for spots and feeling like you need to justify yourself ahead of the next wave is absolutely a desirable thing. Who feels threatened for their spot in our side? I'd suggest no one in the XI from last week.

But yeah, I agree, being 'ready' to play Test cricket is really an improvable point. Plunket Shield does not prepare you for Test cricket. There are precious little A tours or games. You can get a really rough guide, potentially, from how someone might perform in a T20I or ODI, but you're never going to know until they hit the field. And you only learn how to play Test cricket by playing it...not being in the squad, no other way. It's about being brave enough, and trusting your instincts and I.D with selection to pick the right guys at the right times. Is/was Nathan Smith ready for Test cricket? Seems like he's got some of the attributes, but also he's done a lot of things over the past couple of weeks that proves he has a long way to go. Even at 26. And is that surprising? No it's not. He'll only learn by bowling to Test players, dealing with the pressures of that format.

Stead's point about the new player having to be better than the incumbent, blind Freddy can see Nathan Smith is a better cricketer than Tim Southee. Blundell over Mitch Hay, I can buy. Not with Southee, everyone sees he's there on sentiment.

Stead's selections are ridiculously conservative and will hold this side back for years to come. Rachin only kicked on because of an injury to Kane before the World Cup, and was being used completely illogically before that. Ben Sears played a Test because of injury to O'Rourke. Michael Bracewell played 8 Tests, averaging 19 with bat and 41 with ball, because, presumably, he was 'ready' at 31-32 years old. Matt Henry, one of the top 3 seamers in the world, did not play a single game in Sri Lanka because it was too hard to drop the captain. There's a long list of other examples

We're not going to see the Marius, Foulkes, Ashoks, Heaphys, Fishers etc come in under Stead because he's far too keen to stay in favour with the older brigade, and far too conservative to take a long-term view on our best talent.

Given the way Blundell reacted when he scored his ton last week, I'd say he definitely felt like his spot in the side was on the line. He had a real moment there after he got to his ton where you could see him feeling just overwhelmed with relief. Whether that pressure was coming from within the team camp, or the knowledge that this is probably Stead's last series as coach and that his successor will likely be taking a much more critical eye to his recent record, I don't know.

It was interesting reading the interview with Lou Vincent in the paper this morning. Vincent made a comment about how back in his day, players were constantly under pressure for their place, and that created an environment where everyone was looking out for themselves. Not news, I know, but Stead was a player from the same general era, and was himself a victim of this environment. Played 5 tests, averaged mid-30's, produced the goods against a strong SA side, and then had 2 bad tests v WI and was perma-dropped. I totally get why he might feel that a more conservative selection policy that backs past performers and team players to come right is what's best for the team as a whole in the long-run. And I actually generally agree with that sentiment, the problem is how far you go with it. As you say, for Conway and even Blundell you can make an argument (even if I would say they're not good ones). But Southee is where you can see Stead's totally lost his compass (for whatever reason).

 

[jcas0167]

Yeah, there was the 90's chopping and changing then the Ric Charlesworth mid 00's policy of rotating/dropping senior players to keep them on edge (Cairns and Astle didn't appreciate it). The Charlesworth approach might have helped with Southee but he was made captain until recently so couldn't be left out.

 

[Flem274*]

Given the way Blundell reacted when he scored his ton last week, I'd say he definitely felt like his spot in the side was on the line. He had a real moment there after he got to his ton where you could see him feeling just overwhelmed with relief. Whether that pressure was coming from within the team camp, or the knowledge that this is probably Stead's last series as coach and that his predecessor will likely be taking a much more critical eye to his recent record, I don't know.

It was interesting reading the interview with Lou Vincent in the paper this morning. Vincent made a comment about how back in his day, players were constantly under pressure for their place, and that created an environment where everyone was looking out for themselves. Not news, I know, but Stead was a player from the same general era, and I totally get why he might feel that a more conservative selection policy that backs past performers and team players to come right is what's best for the team as a whole in the long-run. And I actually generally agree with that sentiment, the problem is how far you go with it. As you say, for Conway and even Blundell you can make an argument (even if I would say they're not good ones). But Southee is where you can see Stead's totally lost his compass (for whatever reason).

Yeah there's a difference between faith in your team and allowing it to drift.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Is this the triceratops we've heard so much about, @HeathDavisSpeed ?

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. I mean, this is to be expected, but before this there was only a single picture of her on social media (as is the same with our eldest) so they could make their own mind up about what's on the internets when they're old enough to make that decision. Can't see she didn't love it though - the youngest is much more outgoing than the eldest.

 

[thierry henry]

It's not just selections with Stead right, it's the way that the playing group en masse have dramatically declined post-WTC. He should have dropped some guys yeah, but also, how/why did we become so sucky?

I have nfi what an international coach ought to actually be doing (you always hear that it's not about coaching technique or skills at that level, plus they have specialist coaches for the different disciplines anyway) but whatever Stead is doing, it's making the whole collective play like a bunch of weak cats and weak-gutted dogs. For all I know he's doing nothing wrong at all, is a great bloke, and the players have all "stopped playing for him" because they're all jerks. It just doesn't matter anymore, we're at the point where we know that Stead isn't making these guys git gud and it's such an extreme case that Just Change Something applies.

 

[thierry henry]

ok sorry I said I wasn't going to post in match/tour threads but I keep forgetting this is that

 

[_Ed_]

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. I mean, this is to be expected, but before this there was only a single picture of her on social media (as is the same with our eldest) so they could make their own mind up about what's on the internets when they're old enough to make that decision. Can't see she didn't love it though - the youngest is much more outgoing than the eldest.

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to delete my post if you prefer.

 

[Dick Rockett]

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. I mean, this is to be expected, but before this there was only a single picture of her on social media (as is the same with our eldest) so they could make their own mind up about what's on the internets when they're old enough to make that decision. Can't see she didn't love it though - the youngest is much more outgoing than the eldest.

Did they ask permission to put images of her online Heef? Pretty sketchy if not. But at least she's not identified in the video.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Did they ask permission to put images of her online Heef? Pretty sketchy if not. But at least she's not identified in the video.

I suspect so (though none of this is my responsibility, of course - I was with the eldest at the time). The most disappointing thing is the use of the BlackCaps logo over at the end when clearly she's the wrong demographic. Should have had the 3 people with walking sticks - at least it'd be more in line with the particular type of Dad's Army branding of Team Stead.

 

[honestbharani]

I suspect so (though none of this is my responsibility, of course - I was with the eldest at the time). The most disappointing thing is the use of the BlackCaps logo over at the end when clearly she's the wrong demographic. Should have had the 3 people with walking sticks - at least it'd be more in line with the particular type of Dad's Army branding of Team Stead.

Well, she did have the dinosaur costume, right?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Well, she did have the dinosaur costume, right?

At least they had the common decency to become extinct. Southee is still insisting on continuing! I don’t see the parallel

 

[Big_Gun]

For NZ, I dont want Williamson having to bat in the first few overs, like Root, Smith and Virat I want him to bat at number 4, he is so important for NZ. For next Test i would open with Ravindra and Latham, Young at 3 and Williamson at 4. NZ only chance seems to bat first and for Williamson to Score a 100 with support from the rest and try make 350odd.

 

[SteveNZ]

For NZ, I dont want Williamson having to bat in the first few overs, like Root, Smith and Virat I want him to bat at number 4, he is so important for NZ. For next Test i would open with Ravindra and Latham, Young at 3 and Williamson at 4. NZ only chance seems to bat first and for Williamson to Score a 100 with support from the rest and try make 350odd.

I think this is an important consideration for the next coach (PLEASE LET THERE BE A NEXT COACH). You can be as sure as sure can be that it won't happen this week - to be fair, I don't want Rachin opening, he's looked like a cat on a hot tin roof in this series - but it definitely should be looked at going forward.

Something like Mariu Latham Rachin Williamson, I would be good with. Let Rachin take on that responsibility of 3, having been an opener he's capable of it, and it might encourage him to be tighter than we've seen this series.

For this week, I'd be tempted to open with GP on a one-off basis, to allow Will Young similar space to what you're saying. Another bump in the potholed international career of Will Young is the fact that from his strong subcontinent tour, just under a month ago, he hasn't had a single bat in a game. Now he's opening, a role that has proven beyond him in the past.

 

[Skyliner]

A column in The Guardian about Southee's exit et al. Click on 'I'll do it later' to read the whole thing.

Tim Southee’s awkward final chapter comes full circle with England Test

The New Zealand bowler says goodbye to Test cricket with a long list of accolades but there are doubt about his starting place on his home patch in Hamilton

www.theguardian.com

'Whichever way it falls in Hamilton – a crook from wings, a fairytale finish like Broad, or something in between – Southee’s impact is unlikely to be defined by it. The same could be said for the New Zealand team that won 3-0 in India but all of a sudden looks ripe for a reset. In time that tour will shed the blowout against England that followed and simply sparkle as an amazing, historic feat. And Southee, who cleared the rope four times in Bangalore to kickstart the whole thing, very much played his part.'

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

For NZ, I dont want Williamson having to bat in the first few overs, like Root, Smith and Virat I want him to bat at number 4, he is so important for NZ. For next Test i would open with Ravindra and Latham, Young at 3 and Williamson at 4. NZ only chance seems to bat first and for Williamson to Score a 100 with support from the rest and try make 350odd.

Do stats exist which show players' averages when coming out to bat within the first 5/10 overs? Williamson has batted the vast majority of his Test career at 3, and though obviously for most of that time the opening partnership has been more solid than it is now, it goes with the territory that sometimes a number 3 is effectively a synonym for opener

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to delete my post if you prefer.

Agh. I don't know. Either way, it was a great link - sent the video to the grandparents who of course loved it. She does have a winning smile, if I say so myself. Not sure where that came from as I'm a grumpy sod (though I have no doubt that I was happier at the same age, aye?)

 

[Neil Young]

I genuinely think this has ruined his legacy somewhat , can even argue what Southee has done is against the spirit of the game ..
Incredibly selfish.

The problem doesn't lie with Southee. The problem lies with the deadbeats that continue(d) to select him.

 

[Skyliner]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

‘I would certainly like to improve’: Will Young back in Black Caps role where he’s yet to fire

 

[Moss]

For NZ, I dont want Williamson having to bat in the first few overs, like Root, Smith and Virat I want him to bat at number 4, he is so important for NZ. For next Test i would open with Ravindra and Latham, Young at 3 and Williamson at 4. NZ only chance seems to bat first and for Williamson to Score a 100 with support from the rest and try make 350odd.

This is actually something I suggested a long time ago, that Conway at 3 and Williamson at 4 is something NZ could have looked at. Wouldn’t mind a scenario next season where DC and Young battle it out for no.3, though Kane also has a bit of the stubborn streak that seems to run in Stead.

 

[Skyliner]

Some top international coaches becoming available.

Gillespie's future in further doubt as PCB ditches Nielsen

Gillespie is due to head to South Africa in the coming days for the two-match Test series

www.espncricinfo.com