**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[Prince EWS]

Really?????

I doubt he would've been more effective than Carse and Atkinson

Anderson was definitely still better than Woakes.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Anderson was definitely still better than Woakes.

Agree

 

[Skyliner]

Stead loves working with the current group of guys, and he gets a lot of joy out if it as well. Pressure on incumbents is apparently bad….as they may start doing things like selling their wicket dearly or lifting their performance to try to stave off the up and comers.

'We don't select people to drop them': Stead resistant to change for Blackcaps' final Test against England

Gary Stead stopped short of guaranteeing Tim Southee will feature for his Test swansong.

sportnation.nz

‘"The idea of looking for new players - you have to first of all be very, very sure that they are better than the incumbents and you have to be sure that they're ready to play Test cricket," Stead told Sport Nation's Scotty & Izzy.
"One of the things I've said in the past is we don't select people to drop them and the last thing I want is revolving doors the whole time.”
“I think all that happens then is players start looking over their shoulder. They play for themselves and, in a country of our size, we can't afford to do that. We've got to play very, very well as a team together."

‘The upcoming match is the last for the Blackcaps in the current World Test Championship cycle, with a break of six months until the next two-year stretch begins.
It's also the last for Stead before his contract with NZC comes up for renewal around June. Although he's yet to enter into any discussions with the governing body regarding his future with squad, Stead says he still loves his job.
"It's a demanding role. It's a reasonably high profile role in terms of being in the spotlight, but I still enjoy the role.
"I love working with this group of guys and I get a lot of joy out of it as well."’

 

[Chubb]

Consistency of selection is admirable but when sticking with your guys actively damages the development of an entire generation of players, questions should be asked.

He often mentions being "ready to play Test cricket" is important but it is an old fashioned view. England didn't care if Bethell et al were "ready" by whatever notional standards Stead would use. They picked on tools and potential. So do other countries to a less radical extent. NZ seems to be the other extreme. Stead's selections are conservative even by 1990s standards.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Stead's selections are conservative even by 1990s standards.

In the 90s our selections weren't conservative at all. If anything they were reckless. Lots of players got chances.

Germon went straight in as captain.
Most provincial openers got a chance and there were gambles on players like Greg Loveridge and Carl "Cricket Max Star" Bulfin.
Also Vettori got picked after 2-3 1st class games. Craig McMillan had probably 1 good season before debuting. Fleming captain at 23 etc.

 

[jcas0167]

Consistency of selection is admirable but when sticking with your guys actively damages the development of an entire generation of players, questions should be asked.

He often mentions being "ready to play Test cricket" is important but it is an old fashioned view. England didn't care if Bethell et al were "ready" by whatever notional standards Stead would use. They picked on tools and potential. So do other countries to a less radical extent. NZ seems to be the other extreme. Stead's selections are conservative even by 1990s standards.

I think Stead's approach is the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction to the 90's chopping and changing that he would have observed first hand as a player in that era.

In the 90s our selections weren't conservative at all. If anything they were reckless. Lots of players got chances.

Germon went straight in as captain.
Most provincial openers got a chance and there were gambles on players like Greg Loveridge and Carl "Cricket Max Star" Bulfin.
Also Vettori got picked after 2-3 1st class games. Craig McMillan had probably 1 good season before debuting. Fleming captain at 23 etc.

Yeah, the 90's were wild. The 80's also featured Crowe debuting as a 19 yr old against Thomson and Lillee then Rutherford as a 19 year old opener in the Windies against Marshall, Garner and Holding.

 

[Chubb]

In the 90s our selections weren't conservative at all. If anything they were reckless. Lots of players got chances.

Germon went straight in as captain.
Most provincial openers got a chance and there were gambles on players like Greg Loveridge and Carl "Cricket Max Star" Bulfin.
Also Vettori got picked after 2-3 1st class games. Craig McMillan had probably 1 good season before debuting. Fleming captain at 23 etc.

I did mean more in the general sense of how selectors in most places would've operated in the 1990s, rather than specifically NZ, but I take your point.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

he's a selfish guy or so Ive heard online and whatnot. I think he would not have retired of his own volition until he was approaching a wheelchair. I think that is just part of his personality and he loved he attention (not knocking how good he was). I said it at the time but it completely was the right time and he stunk the place out with his attitude instead of taking it gracefully.

Contrast that to Moeen after the ashes when Stokes asked him to stay on, and he told him to swivel on it so he could enjoy his retirement on the high of the last Ashes test win.

Shame we haven't brought a spinner with a 1/4 of his ability yet though

Better to drop a guy when he’s still got something left, but when others also have lots to offer than not give those guys a chance in the first place and then find out that the old guy is past it. You have to remember that it was the Windies, bottom of the WTC with a historically weak batting lineup, I’m sure we could have called up plenty of county trundlers and they’d have done well, and likewise who’s to say Anderson would have had as much success as Carse and Atkinson have had in NZ and Pakistan (it’s easy to respond with ‘but Woakes’, but aside from this series where he’s done quite well, he’s been picked as much for his batting as his bowling)

 

[Chin Music]

Better to drop a guy when he’s still got something left, but when others also have lots to offer than not give those guys a chance in the first place and then find out that the old guy is past it. You have to remember that it was the Windies, bottom of the WTC with a historically weak batting lineup, I’m sure we could have called up plenty of county trundlers and they’d have done well, and likewise who’s to say Anderson would have had as much success as Carse and Atkinson have had in NZ and Pakistan (it’s easy to respond with ‘but Woakes’, but aside from this series where he’s done quite well, he’s been picked as much for his batting as his bowling)

If ever there was a time to bring in a newbie pace bowler, it was probably that series at home. He already had a few games under his belt by the time tour came. It certainly also wasn't the seamers fault for the loss in Pakistan as they fared well on pitches that were never going to help them.

 

[grecian]

he's a selfish guy or so Ive heard online and whatnot. I think he would not have retired of his own volition until he was approaching a wheelchair. I think that is just part of his personality and he loved he attention (not knocking how good he was). I said it at the time but it completely was the right time and he stunk the place out with his attitude instead of taking it gracefully.

Contrast that to Moeen after the ashes when Stokes asked him to stay on, and he told him to swivel on it so he could enjoy his retirement on the high of the last Ashes test win.

Shame we haven't brought a spinner with a 1/4 of his ability yet though

What a sentence....

 

[Dick Rockett]

"One of the things I've said in the past is we don't select people to drop them and the last thing I want is revolving doors the whole time.”

Stead has been leaning heavily on false equivalence. The other day it was "well Southee wasn't the only one getting smashed and everyone has patches of bad form", ignoring the last two years entirely.

Now he's like 'making changes after a historically large loss with so many players in terrible form at once' = 'revolving doors'.

“I think all that happens then is players start looking over their shoulder. They play for themselves and, in a country of our size, we can't afford to do that. We've got to play very, very well as a team together."

The team's form under Stead is patchy to say the least and it can be argued that the best success they've had under him had more to do with Hesson & McCullum. They certainly weren't responsible for four straight home losses for the first time in 70 years, including one of our worst ever defeats.

Under Stead, the NZ cricket team actually does not "play very, very well as a team together."

 

[Molehill]

What a sentence....

It's a beauty....so selfish that he then took a job coaching his successors and seems to be having quite a bit of success.

There was a lot of debate about whether Anderson should be moved on at the time, the fact there was so much discussion proved it wasn't a clearcut decision. That is clearly not the case with Southee.....

 

[_Ed_]

Is this the triceratops we've heard so much about, @HeathDavisSpeed ?

8.8K views · 117 reactions | Dress Up Day vibes at the @cellobasinreserve! Thank you for your support, Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Wellington 🏏 #NZvENG #CricketNation #Cricket | Blackcaps

Dress Up Day vibes at the @cellobasinreserve! Thank you for your support, Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Wellington 🏏 #NZvENG #CricketNation #Cricket.

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[mackembhoy]

he's a selfish guy or so Ive heard online and whatnot. I think he would not have retired of his own volition until he was approaching a wheelchair. I think that is just part of his personality and he loved he attention (not knocking how good he was). I said it at the time but it completely was the right time and he stunk the place out with his attitude instead of taking it gracefully.

Contrast that to Moeen after the ashes when Stokes asked him to stay on, and he told him to swivel on it so he could enjoy his retirement on the high of the last Ashes test win.

Shame we haven't brought a spinner with a 1/4 of his ability yet though

I think that's an unfair post on Jimmy. If they didn't like the bloke they'd have not kept him on for the remainder of this year as coach.

Apart from the Ashes in 2023 Jimmy had been on fire in the 2 years prior and he did perfectly good job in India.

The guy just wanted to keep playing and taking wickets as he felt and proved he was worth his place in the side.

It's obviously been a good decision as it's allowed others to shine.

But the issue was and still remains is that Jimmy was still worth his place in the side. So then saying it was about forward planning is a load of shite when they didn't then retire Woakes for the same thing. I still think you could have rotated him and Jimmy to good effect without retiring him.

I'd have rather have Jimmy available even at 43 than Woakes for the Ashes.

 

[Skyliner]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

‘The Black Caps’ opening partnership in test cricket has been performing as bad in 2024 as it has at any stage since 2007.
Captain Tom Latham, 32, has been joined by Devon Conway, 33, for nine tests and by Will Young, 32, for two. Altogether, they’ve had a total of 22 partnerships, where they have scored an average of 17.72 runs and lasted an average of 5.4 overs.
Not since 2007, when the Black Caps averaged 14.5 runs for the first wicket, with the opening pair lasting an average of five overs – albeit across just four innings – have the returns been as low as they have been this year.

 

[Skyliner]

 

[SteveNZ]

Consistency of selection is admirable but when sticking with your guys actively damages the development of an entire generation of players, questions should be asked.

He often mentions being "ready to play Test cricket" is important but it is an old fashioned view. England didn't care if Bethell et al were "ready" by whatever notional standards Stead would use. They picked on tools and potential. So do other countries to a less radical extent. NZ seems to be the other extreme. Stead's selections are conservative even by 1990s standards.

Consistency of selection is one consideration. Absolutely, you don't want to be chopping and changing, and guys who have performed in situations like Nicholls did, and Blundell did as well deserve some level of leniency at the selection table. But nor do you want these guys to believe they can put up the odd good performance and go as long as some of our batsmen have without centuries. This might be a team game, but it's also an individual pursuit. Competition for spots and feeling like you need to justify yourself ahead of the next wave is absolutely a desirable thing. Who feels threatened for their spot in our side? I'd suggest no one in the XI from last week.

But yeah, I agree, being 'ready' to play Test cricket is really an improvable point. Plunket Shield does not prepare you for Test cricket. There are precious little A tours or games. You can get a really rough guide, potentially, from how someone might perform in a T20I or ODI, but you're never going to know until they hit the field. And you only learn how to play Test cricket by playing it...not being in the squad, no other way. It's about being brave enough, and trusting your instincts and I.D with selection to pick the right guys at the right times. Is/was Nathan Smith ready for Test cricket? Seems like he's got some of the attributes, but also he's done a lot of things over the past couple of weeks that proves he has a long way to go. Even at 26. And is that surprising? No it's not. He'll only learn by bowling to Test players, dealing with the pressures of that format.

Stead's point about the new player having to be better than the incumbent, blind Freddy can see Nathan Smith is a better cricketer than Tim Southee. Blundell over Mitch Hay, I can buy. Not with Southee, everyone sees he's there on sentiment.

Stead's selections are ridiculously conservative and will hold this side back for years to come. Rachin only kicked on because of an injury to Kane before the World Cup, and was being used completely illogically before that. Ben Sears played a Test because of injury to O'Rourke. Michael Bracewell played 8 Tests, averaging 19 with bat and 41 with ball, because, presumably, he was 'ready' at 31-32 years old. Matt Henry, one of the top 3 seamers in the world, did not play a single game in Sri Lanka because it was too hard to drop the captain. There's a long list of other examples

We're not going to see the Marius, Foulkes, Ashoks, Heaphys, Fishers etc come in under Stead because he's far too keen to stay in favour with the older brigade, and far too conservative to take a long-term view on our best talent.

 

[SteveNZ]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

‘The Black Caps’ opening partnership in test cricket has been performing as bad in 2024 as it has at any stage since 2007.
Captain Tom Latham, 32, has been joined by Devon Conway, 33, for nine tests and by Will Young, 32, for two. Altogether, they’ve had a total of 22 partnerships, where they have scored an average of 17.72 runs and lasted an average of 5.4 overs.
Not since 2007, when the Black Caps averaged 14.5 runs for the first wicket, with the opening pair lasting an average of five overs – albeit across just four innings – have the returns been as low as they have been this year.

Average of 5.4 overs, that is diabolical.

2007, that would have been the likes of James Marshall, Aaron Redmond, Jamie How and co? What a crazy indictment.

Daily reminder that Gary Stead is our coach, and was a former opening bat for NZ. Yet our performance in that very department is as poor as it's ever been in our history, and it's hardly a fabled history of making runs from 0-0.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

View attachment 43212

Ffs, you’ve literally just played Sri Lanka!

 

[Dick Rockett]

Daily reminder that Gary Stead is our coach, and was a former opening bat for NZ.

I wonder if his aversion to 'revolving doors' is because he's still salty about not being given years to prove that he was NZ's greatest opener since Glenn Turner.