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**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

Molehill

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Days of Grace said:
Anderson was fairly bitter about his career being ended, was he not?
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He may have been a little at the time (and who wouldn't be really?) - I'm sure the book overly dramatizes the meet up in a bid to sell more copies, but he's certainly not anymore. He's definitely not carrying any bitterness around and taking digs at former team mates, instead he's working with the squad and helping them become better bowlers. Seems to be working out well.....maybe something NZ could have done with their stalwarts.
 
Chubb

Chubb

International Regular
Skyliner said:
11 December has been declared a ‘National Day of Action’ against the repressive Stead regime. Demonstrations will be held in all main population centres. Go to steadmustgo.com for more information on how you can help bring about the downfall of ‘steadism’.
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The Party has always opposed Steadism-Southeeism! Be awake to the dangers of anti-revolutionary Bracewellism and metropolitan right-deviation of Bazism!
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Molehill said:
He may have been a little at the time (and who wouldn't be really?) - I'm sure the book overly dramatizes the meet up in a bid to sell more copies, but he's certainly not anymore. He's definitely not carrying any bitterness around and taking digs at former team mates, instead he's working with the squad and helping them become better bowlers. Seems to be working out well.....maybe something NZ could have done with their stalwarts.
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Wagner's still playing domestic cricket and maybe county cricket. Seems to be taking on a mentor role for Northern District's stable of quicks. From the looks of things he's been doing a great job of teaching Matt Fisher the dark arts of Wagnerball. Reckon he could be an amazing coach/mentor for NZ some day, but it'll probably have to wait a year or two.

Boult's just looking to make as much dosh as he can while he's still got some cache in the IPL. No chance he'd be interested in being part of the NZ setup given he already walked away from it in 2022.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
I've never been a massive Tim Southee fan, although I do appreciate at his peak he was a hell of a red ball bowler.

There's a bit of behind the scenes stuff that leads to that, and the fact he, for long periods, squandered his talent with his lack of commitment. It was a frustrating career when you saw him bowl like a club 3rd XI bowler v SA in 2012, only to take 7-for in India 6 months later. And the batting has always given me the shits.

I think a 30+ Test average is only fair, he's not in the upper echelon of pace bowlers. I have Boult and Wags well ahead of him in the pecking order. Too many peaks and troughs.

The fact he played in Sri Lanka in both Tests, and our best bowler by a country mile, Matt Henry, did not, still gives me the shits. I know he was the captain, but they gave themselves an out in saying he wouldn't necessarily play all the matches on the subcontinent. That was woeful.

I have the theory that after Stead dropped Southee on the 2019-20 Australian tour, after he'd taken 9-for, it was made very clear by whoever that it wasn't to happen again. And that the whole stepping down from the captaincy after Sri Lanka was a tactic, designed to take heat off the fact Tim was clearly not in our best XI but the public needed some sort of scalp. Give us the (c) back, Tim, and we'll get you through to the England series unscathed.
 
Skyliner

Skyliner

State Captain
www.nzherald.co.nz

Southee's final bow the last call for Black Caps selectors

The Black Caps avoided a couple of tricky decisions ahead of the dead rubber with England.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz

‘“Once we get up there and have a look at the pitch, then we’ll make those decisions,” Stead said. “Both Tim and Kane played on the wicket [in the Plunket Shield], so they will certainly have an idea of how that looked and they’ll be able to give Tom and I a good understanding.”

Southee’s feedback from that November appearance for Northern Districts is unlikely to focus too closely on the two wickets he collected across 24 overs, a trio of seam teammates chiming in with the other 18 Auckland scalps.’
 
V

vandem

State Captain
SteveNZ said:
... I have the theory that after Stead dropped Southee on the 2019-20 Australian tour, after he'd taken 9-for, it was made very clear by whoever that it wasn't to happen again. ...
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The Sydney test XI selection will be a interesting topic to look for clues in any upcoming books (haven't read Wag's yet).

The dropping of Southee and the selection of Astle as 2nd spinner might have had an impact on both player's careers over the next few seasons. Perhaps senior players gave Stead an ultimatum either about not picking Southee, or about the way the non-selection was handled? Perhaps Astle didn't like the Stead vs senior player tension which prompted his retirement from test cricket soon afterwards?
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
vandem said:
The Sydney test XI selection will be a interesting topic to look for clues in any upcoming books (haven't read Wag's yet).

The dropping of Southee and the selection of Astle as 2nd spinner might have had an impact on both player's careers over the next few seasons. Perhaps senior players gave Stead an ultimatum either about not picking Southee, or about the way the non-selection was handled? Perhaps Astle didn't like the Stead vs senior player tension which prompted his retirement from test cricket soon afterwards?
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Yeah the way Astle worked his way back to arguably the #1 spinner role (after having it and then losing his spot to Ajaz and Somerville while he was out injured) and then immediately retired after that 1 test was bizarre. It might have been a simple case of him deciding that he could make a better living for the last few years of his career focusing on white ball cricket, but I'm inclined towards the conspiracy theories.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
I have the theory that after Stead dropped Southee on the 2019-20 Australian tour, after he'd taken 9-for, it was made very clear by whoever that it wasn't to happen again. And that the whole stepping down from the captaincy after Sri Lanka was a tactic, designed to take heat off the fact Tim was clearly not in our best XI but the public needed some sort of scalp. Give us the (c) back, Tim, and we'll get you through to the England series unscathed.
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N

Northerner

School Boy/Girl Captain
The whole Southee saga, has been disappointing, he hung around 18 months too long, he was probably desperate to get to 400 test wickets. but his form has been awful and in no way should he be selected for the 3rd test, give him an ODI or a T20 as a finale,
 
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slowfinger

slowfinger

International Debutant
Days of Grace said:
Anderson was fairly bitter about his career being ended, was he not?
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he's a selfish guy or so Ive heard online and whatnot. I think he would not have retired of his own volition until he was approaching a wheelchair. I think that is just part of his personality and he loved he attention (not knocking how good he was). I said it at the time but it completely was the right time and he stunk the place out with his attitude instead of taking it gracefully.

Contrast that to Moeen after the ashes when Stokes asked him to stay on, and he told him to swivel on it so he could enjoy his retirement on the high of the last Ashes test win.

Shame we haven't brought a spinner with a 1/4 of his ability yet though
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Anderson was still a better bowler than the people he was being pushed aside for - he was being moved on just for future planning - so I think it's forgivable he was a bit salty about it.

The Southee situation is the opposite. He's not good enough to be in the side but being picked anyway for some kind of "past planning". Still not his responsibility to drop himself though.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Bahnz said:
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Keeps things interesting, I reckon.

I still can't add up why Southee stepped down as captain, then proceeded to be picked for the next 5 out of 6 Tests (we know he's playing in Hamilton). We never heard a plausible reason as to why that happened. It was sold as being in the best interests of the team. Why? We were told Tim made that decision, not Stead or anyone else. I don't buy that.

My tinfoil hat might attract attention but honestly I don't think it's implausible. Read this - https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...t-captain-tom-latham-to-lead-in-india-1453388 - and tell me that's legit. Sounds like BS and poppycock to me.
 
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