**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[wpdavid]

Picking guys with no FC track record is commonplace for this England era, but statistically Bethell must be the least qualified England batsman selected for tests since, when - the 1940s? Have England capped a batsman without a first class hundred since around that time?

My memory might be playing tricks here, but had Mike Gatting made a FC hundred before being called up for the 1977/78 tour of Pakistan?
I vaguely remember reading that it came down to a choice between Gatting and Gower for that tour. Where it gets a bit fuzzy is a discussion about Gatting's higher county average in 1977 vs. Gower's track record including a FC hundered or two.


Mike Atherton's another name that springs to mind when he was thrown in against Australia in 1989, when he was clearly not ready. I think he may have made a FC hundred, but I'm not completely sure.

 

[Starfighter]

My memory might be playing tricks here, but had Mike Gatting made a FC hundred before being called up for the 1977/78 tour of Pakistan?
I vaguely remember reading that it came down to a choice between Gatting and Gower for that tour. Where it gets a bit fuzzy is a discussion about Gatting's higher county average in 1977 vs. Gower's track record including a FC hundered or two.

No, made his first one in the 1978 home season.

 

[trundler]

My memory might be playing tricks here, but had Mike Gatting made a FC hundred before being called up for the 1977/78 tour of Pakistan?
I vaguely remember reading that it came down to a choice between Gatting and Gower for that tour. Where it gets a bit fuzzy is a discussion about Gatting's higher county average in 1977 vs. Gower's track record including a FC hundered or two.


Mike Atherton's another name that springs to mind when he was thrown in against Australia in 1989, when he was clearly not ready. I think he may have made a FC hundred, but I'm not completely sure.

Cricinfo just picked up on this. Your memory is astonishing.

 

[Groundking]

He'll probably bag a double ton now, but wtf are we doing? We're so unserious it's not even funny, guy averages sub 30 and has never batted top 4? What are they even seeing in him?

 

[mackembhoy]

Supposedly Ollie Robinson passport is expired and would have been called up for this game if not for that.

Pretty stupid on his part to not renew his passport after he was India with the lions earlier this year!

 

[chris.hinton]

Madness having Bethall at 3

I imagine how the convo came about

Big Brendan: We need a number 3 with some pedigree
Stokes: Well Bethy just sank an eagle on the 4th hole yesterday
BB: Get the man in, We will come up with something in the press, The Barmy Army, Nas and Ian Ward will fall for it
BS: I will tell him the news

 

[mackembhoy]

Madness having Bethall at 3

I imagine how the convo came about

Big Brendan: We need a number 3 with some pedigree
Stokes: Well Bethy just sank an eagle on the 4th hole yesterday
BB: Get the man in, We will come up with something in the press, The Barmy Army, Nas and Ian Ward will fall for it
BS: I will tell him the news

Well if Ollie Robinson had a valid passport we'd have Pope at 3 and him at 7.

Bit in here about it

Refreshed Stokes clears the air with England before New Zealand Test

Returning to his native Christchurch is having a positive effect on the captain and hopefully will do the same for his side

www.theguardian.com

 

[mackembhoy]

Picking guys with no FC track record is commonplace for this England era, but statistically Bethell must be the least qualified England batsman selected for tests since, when - the 1940s? Have England capped a batsman without a first class hundred since around that time?

Well a guy that became England captain was the last one!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861439773086490995

 

[Nicky]

Well... I understand all those doubts about Bethell at 3, but at least, it'll be more exciting to see how he performs. And is it really "madness" as I read above ? I'm happy to see something else than Pope at 3.
And the idea of Stokes at 3 is not a bad one, but not one for the future...
Bethell looks like a really talented guy. So why not try something crazy!
Also, this might unlock the Pope problem. He might feel more comfortable lower the order.

Crawley
Duckett
Bethell
Root
Brook
Pope
Stokes
And the bowlers.

I'm looking forward to that! Sorry!

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Well... I understand all those doubts about Bethell at 3, but at least, it'll be more exciting to see how he performs. And is it really "madness" as I read above ? I'm happy to see something else than Pope at 3.
And the idea of Stokes at 3 is not a bad one, but not one for the future...
Bethell looks like a really talented guy. So why not try something crazy!
Also, this might unlock the Pope problem. He might feel more comfortable lower the order.

Crawley
Duckett
Bethell
Root
Brook
Pope
Stokes
And the bowlers.

I'm looking forward to that! Sorry!

Had Pope batted at 3 before being picked for England?

 

[Immenso]

It is interesting that neither of the NZ potential seamer debutants have a very good FC bowling record at Hagley Oval.

Duffy: 51 from 7 games.
Smith:145 from 3 games

For Smith there may be an element of sample size as he dominated an away game v Canterbury once, but was at Rangiora rather than Hagley.

 

[kevinw]

Supposedly Ollie Robinson passport is expired and would have been called up for this game if not for that.

Pretty stupid on his part to not renew his passport after he was India with the lions earlier this year!

WTF, how does that even happen? There was always a chance he could get called up this Winter. Has James Rew got a passport?

 

[wpdavid]

Cricinfo just picked up on this. Your memory is astonishing.

That's very kind of you. I suppose, like all of us, the details we remember best are from the first few years when we followed the game.
It would be nice to think that cricinfo posted that from reading Cricketweb, but I suppose that wasn't the case.

 

[wpdavid]

Supposedly Ollie Robinson passport is expired and would have been called up for this game if not for that.
Pretty stupid on his part to not renew his passport after he was India with the lions earlier this year!

Not exactly clever even if he hadn't toured with the Lions.

 

[SteveNZ]

If he fails it effectively means Root is batting at 3. Remember Vaughan's test debut in South Africa, batted at 4, but was in at the end of the second over 2-2 fast becoming 2-4 when Stewart and Butcher were also out. https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...rica-vs-england-1st-test-63860/full-scorecard

Yep, fair point.

He'll probably bag a double ton now, but wtf are we doing? We're so unserious it's not even funny, guy averages sub 30 and has never batted top 4? What are they even seeing in him?

We say that, but he probably won't. I don't know the guy but really weird that a guy who averages 25 at an SR of 48, doesn't bat top 4 as you say and hasn't scored a FC hundred, is about to bat 3 for England and probably try to smash.

Speaks to my boring old laboured point about these modern-day cricketers getting opportunities they're not equipped for, or have earned.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

How did I not know Will O'Rourke is Paddy O'Rourke's son? Odd - but Will playing for Canterbury and no link to his old man's profile like there'd normally be probably threw me.

 

[Prince EWS]

If he fails it effectively means Root is batting at 3. Remember Vaughan's test debut in South Africa, batted at 4, but was in at the end of the second over 2-2 fast becoming 2-4 when Stewart and Butcher were also out. https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...rica-vs-england-1st-test-63860/full-scorecard

I think Root not liking to bat 3 is much more mental than technical, which is why did the Moeen thing and are doing the Bethell thing now. He doesn't mind coming in early as long as two wickets have fallen already.

They honestly might as well bat Woakes at 3 if they're going to do that though.

 

[jcas0167]

How did I not know Will O'Rourke is Paddy O'Rourke's son? Odd - but Will playing for Canterbury and no link to his old man's profile like there'd normally be probably threw me.

I'm surprised his dad never got a Black Caps call up. Seriously good record. https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/patrick-o-rourke-38072

 

[Hungry Llama]

Looking at the weather and what usually happens at Hagley I suggest they ditch Bash and recall bowling coach Anderson pronto.
How many overs will England last if they have to bat first? They managed 65 in the whole game at Queenstown.

 

[Immenso]

I'm surprised his dad never got a Black Caps call up. Seriously good record. https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/patrick-o-rourke-38072

Yeah. I was thinking that last year when his son got called up. I was wondering if O’Rourke senior was the last ever 'unlucky not to be a blackcap' (because that is impossible now, with 3 formats and JAM).

He did 80% of his work in just 2 season (1989/90 and 1990/91).

In the winter of 1990 his Wellington teammate Jonathan Millmow got the England tour as the 5th seamer project player. Millmow did statistically out bowl O’Rourke in the 89/90 season.

But Millmow with his run-up more complicated than the Bosnian peace process … was never going to work, in hindsight. (Although it was actually injury that ended him)

The 1990/91 season was a huge change for the NZ seam attack with 2 retirements from the first 11 at the end of the England tour in 1990. And it was Watson and Pringle who joined Morrison. With C Cairns coming back from injury and taking a place in the ODI team by the end of that season. While Larsen and Petrie were ODI regulars that season.

O’Rourke was 3rd top wicket take domestically in 1990/91 (behind Dipak Patel and Richard de Green). Patel regained a test place that season as the spinner, and de Green debuted 3 season later)

But then looks like he barely played in 91/92 (not sure if that was injury or something else) Barely played the following year, and then that was it. During those 2 seasons he barely played NZ debuted; Nash, Doull, Owens, Su’a.