***Official*** England in India

[Nishant]

you seriously think the selectors would drop him from the SQUAD altogether in favor of a rookie?

yeh! why not? Laxman is just not performing and considering the fact that yuvraj is on form, surely he'll get into the side and laxman will be dropped. That's wat i want to see anyway! sure many of u dont agree though...

 

[TT Boy]

yeh! why not? Laxman is just not performing and considering the fact that yuvraj is on form, surely he'll get into the side and laxman will be dropped. That's wat i want to see anyway! sure many of u dont agree though...

Yuvraj is hardly a rookie, the kid has been around years and his on awesome form, get him in there if Laxman fails. If I was one of the Indian selectors I would be feeding news to the media that Laxman’s second innings would decide if he plays the next test match, Laxman always plays well when his got his back to the wall and this is the perfect chance to show what he has got.

 

[What-A-Player]

71 runs ahead and they will deal with 4th day pitch of Nagpur v/s Kumble and Co.

England can't be too ambitious to set India a big target so quickly

 

[Jono]

My personal Rating:

1) World Cup
2) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) Test series win against Mediocre Team
4) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI Series win against mediocre team
6) Test series win against zim/bang
7) ODI series win against zim/bang


The average subcontinent rating:

1) World Cup
2) ODI series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
3) ODI Series win against mediocre team
4) Test series win against AUS/ENG/OTHER TOP TEAM
5) ODI series win against zim/bang
6) Test series win against Mediocre Team
7) Test series win against zim/bang

No its not!

India winning the test series against Australia in 2001 did a lot more for cricket there than their ODI series win against Australia in Sharjah back in 98 when Sachin went crazy.

You do not speak for everyone I'm afraid, and in 1 billion Indians, there are a large amount of cricket fans who enjoy tests just as there are a large amount of cricket fans who only enjoy ODIs. Just because they don't show up to the ground doesn't mean they don't watch the game and love it.

 

[Jono]

He's right though - you only have to compare the crowds of the two versions in the sub-continent.

That's different though. The conditions at the grounds are not crash hot, and when you go to see a ODI in India you are guaranteed to see Sachin, Dravid, Dhoni (now) bat. Its obvious for years the main heroes from India, despite Harbhajan and Kumble's exploits, have been India's batsman. If you're going to spend your hard earned money and sit in (to be frank) some pretty poor conditions all day, you want some guaranteed entertainment.

I look at the Australia vs. India test series in 2001, I see full stadiums (or close to it) when people are not working. But you can't always expect that on working days, and when you factor what I said above, there is a reason why tests don't fill as much as ODIs.

 

[Jono]

No, crowds only gauge popularity, which is not necessarily related to importance.

That can be true. For example, I'm sure a hell of a lot of people would have watched the one-off ODI between India and Pakistan in 2004 (called the jubillee match or something, where Salman Butt got his maiden ton - see I barely remember it its so insignificant). It was a day-nighter so they would have had time to either go to the ground later or watch most of it on TV. This = more attendance and also = more viewers.

Yet I am 100% positive that a large majority of people would have seen the test series vs. Australia in 2001 and 2004 as far far far more important than a one-off ODI, even if it was against Pakistan. But the attendance and viewers may not always show that.

 

[Jono]

In Pakistan people prefer to watch their team win at the end of the day instead of watching a good day's cricket and thats the reason we get to see more crowd in Odi's then test matches.

On the other hand if there is a result possible for the home team then there will be large crowd on the result-day of the test match, the recently concluded test with India is a good example.

As for the subject of popularity i would say the T.V viewership for both test and Odi would be quite similar with Odi's just shaving it due to Day-night encounters and more 4 and 6's which appeals to the female fans, but one thing is certain majority of the fans understand that winning a test match is more difficult then an Odi so it would be deemed as more important.

Exactly.

It just has to be accepted that the culture is different in the sub-continent, whereby watching cricket is different, but I'd say the importance is pretty much the same.

I mean who the hell even remembers half the ODIs between India and Pakistan have played over the past 3 years? I seriously struggle to remember most, bar the great matches and close-finishes. What about the 7 ODI series between India and Sri Lanka? That's all a blur except for Dhoni's 183.

Crazy to even try and argue that people in the sub-continent think that is more important than a test series. They may watch it more for various factors which I've shown in the above posts, but they don't think its more important. I'm sure many shrug their shoulders and go "Oh well" when their team loses a ODI, they'll be disappointed of course, but that's it. Sri Lanka lost one ODI against India in their recent 7 ODI series, and I'm sure not many Indian fans really cared that much.

Anyway I've argued the last 4 posts on this debate so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jono]

...whether he scratches around or plays solidly, the point is that he has to contribute to the team cause which he has just not been doing enough.....the days are past when his mere presence was enough to send shivers down the spines of opposing bowlers....

Why then is he still scoring in ODIs though? I mean if he's in decline due to his ageing body and/or injuries, how can he be successful in one form and not the other. Since 2002 his test stats aren't as good as they could be, but his ODI stats are brilliant as always with only one bad year (2005) where he had surgery on his arm. 2003 was superb and there was nothing wrong with 2004.

 

[Jono]

yeh! why not? Laxman is just not performing and considering the fact that yuvraj is on form, surely he'll get into the side and laxman will be dropped. That's wat i want to see anyway! sure many of u dont agree though...

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T3_18-22DEC2005.html

He saved our butt here in the 3rd test. Everyone in the top order but VVS scored (Dravid was injured), and if Pathan and Dhoni didn't help with a lower-order recovery India would have been in some trouble.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T2_10-14DEC2005.html

Did a good job in the 2nd test as well.

 

[luckyeddie]

yea he may not & admitedly before this game you wouldn't think that would be a bad thing because no one would have expected Hoggard to be a bowler who might be bale to take a 5 for in sub-continent conditions. Might be a tight statement to make but i reckon a Simon Jones fully fit could have equalled Hoggard or done better if he had played..

There have been 3 people on here who have consistently fended off the rubbish that has been hurled in Hoggard's direction for about 3 years now. One day people will realise that he has more brain than any other bowler in the England team by a mile, and would walk into any other side in the world - purely because he can fulfil so many roles.

 

[adharcric]

...whether he scratches around or plays solidly, the point is that he has to contribute to the team cause which he has just not been doing enough.....the days are past when his mere presence was enough to send shivers down the spines of opposing bowlers....

One does have to contribute, but you can always judge a player's ability to contribute by watching him bat. Tendulkar has looked solid and all of a sudden thrown it all away against innocuous deliveries or received a bad decision. I'm still backing him to hit a big one in this series. Have faith guys.

 

[SJS]

Yeah I was talking about Kaif having secured his spot in the "squad" for the 2nd test over Raina, who will miss out now that Yuvraj returns.

There is also an outside chance that they may include 8 batsmen, six bowlers and a keeper instead of 7+7+1 as they have in this squad in which case one of the young bowlers sitting out (RP,VRV,Chawla) may be dropped from the squad. They will have a fair idea which of them is going to be on the bench at the end of this test and may prefer to keep the better fielder (Raina) to occupy the 12th man spot.

 

[Sanz]

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T3_18-22DEC2005.html

He saved our butt here in the 3rd test. Everyone in the top order but VVS scored (Dravid was injured), and if Pathan and Dhoni didn't help with a lower-order recovery India would have been in some trouble.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T2_10-14DEC2005.html

Did a good job in the 2nd test as well.

Jono - For some reason Laxman will never have a secure place in this Indian team, no matter what he does. It is his destiny man. Even his staunch supporters (such as yourself) dont know what to do when Yuvraj comes back.

We all know Laxman has saved India many times, but when Yuvraj comes back, should we drop Kaif or leave Yuvraj out ?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Warne bowled brilliantly no doubt, but the English definitely played him poorly.

Trescothick - played him well.
Strauss - for the most part, didn't look like he had much of a clue - to his credit he improved towards the end.
Vaughan - one innings aside, played him very poorly.
Bell - didn't have a clue.
Pietersen - Pietersen did play Warne quite well - he did get out a few times, but he did make 4 scores, hammering Warne for some huge 6s on each occasion.
Flintoff - also played him quite well in all fairness.
Jones - played him awfully.
Giles - The Oval aside, he played him incredibly poorly, played lots of needless sweeps.
Hoggard - was never really going to have much of a clue.
Harmison - played him okay actually, I remember him tracking him for 6 a few times.
Jones - also played him well, some exquisite cover drives.

Of the top 7, 4 played Warne very poorly, with some very soft dismissals. Warne did bowl very well though.

Our success was to do with our bowling, and playing their seamers very well. We didn't play Warne well.

They still played him better than in past series. I think even Warne would tell you that much.

 

[adharcric]

Jono - For some reason Laxman will never have a secure place in this Indian team, no matter what he does. It is his destiny man. Even his staunch supporters (such as yourself) dont know what to do when Yuvraj comes back.

We all know Laxman has saved India many times, but when Yuvraj comes back, should we drop Kaif or leave Yuvraj out ?

Yeah, Laxman does seem to have bad luck written in his destiny. At times it's unfair decisions from the selectors, at times it's unplayable deliveries just when he's at the crease. To keep Laxman in, we might have to drop Kaif AND keep Yuvraj out, unless the 4 bowlers can show that they are really capable of bowling out England for 250 or 300 at most in the second innings.

Then again, after the batting collapse we witnessed yesterday, the selectors might feel the need to keep that 6th specialist batsman in there to pull off that fightback in case the big guns fall again ... At least Kaif seems to have regained some form for the one-dayers.

 

[Pratters]

Just ball stock balls and dont give easy runs till the ball gets a bit older Mr. Pathan and Mr. Sreesanth.

 

[Pratters]

Right. Come on Jumbo!

 

[andyc]

Uhh....

6.6 Dhoni to Strauss, no run, tossed up on the middle and off stump line, defended towards cover, Kumble starts off with a good over
6.5 Dhoni to Strauss, no run, bit wide outside the off stump, Strauss takes it on the pad
6.4 Dhoni to Strauss, no run, defended on the back-foot, ball rolls away on the off side
6.3 Dhoni to Strauss, no run, defended back to the bowler
6.2 Dhoni to Cook, 3 byes, drifting down the leg side, Cook is beaten by the extra bounce, once again Dhoni only manages to get a touch on it, Sreesanth moves across in the deep and cuts off the boundary
6.1 Dhoni to Cook, 4 byes, right through! excellent delivery first-up and Cook is comprehensively beaten, Dhoni fails to stop it cleanly and the ball races away to the fine leg fence

What the hell is Cricinfo on about!?

 

[aussie]

England off to a solid start, after getting the final wicket quickly good signs so far..

 

[JustTool]

You are right. In Srinath's own words: "he never ever give up"
and Kumble is "India spin hero"

ARRGHHHHHH !!

Atleast Srinath wont say these things in a commentry box.

"Top edges are safe shots as long they are edged with control"

"He caught this orange ball so easily like it was an orange fruit not a ball"

"SPECTACULAR CAAAATCH , WHAT A CAAATCH and that was A CAAAATCH"