** Official Cricketweb Horseracing thread **

[Molehill]

Don't they breed horses in Australia? Everything French or Irish bred

So many of those horses started out life here. Serpentine is a funny one, won a bizarre Derby in 2020 when the others let him go off the front (having won a maiden the week before) and then turned out to be useless. Now he turns up in Australia.

As for the breeding, interesting to note that Hukum, who won the King George at Ascot in July, has been retired to stud in Japan.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

They gelded Serpentine too. Got to be first Derby winner in ages to get the cruelest cut.

 

[Molehill]

They gelded Serpentine too. Got to be first Derby winner in ages to get the cruelest cut.

I actually think Coolmore were really disappointed when he won the Derby, it wasn't the horse they wanted to win it with (has happened more than once for them too). But 2020 was just a weird year, the Derby being run after Royal Ascot was bizarre.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Don't they breed horses in Australia? Everything French or Irish bred

They do but a lot of imports from Europe race in Australia because:

A. There is depth in Europe at 1600m+
B. Australia hasn't had depth at 1600m+ for at last a decade to 12 years
C. The racing in Europe at 1600m+ is the best in the world.
D. The imports that come to Australia aren't good enough so Australia is the best option for them.

The best..the very best from Europe dont come to Australia...its the B/C/D Graders that come to Australia.

Australian racing doesn't breed good horses at 1600m+ in terms of quality in numbers/depth anymore which is sad.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Interesting stat in regards to Gold Trip and the 58.5kg he has to carry in the Caulfield Cup..

17 horses have attempted to win the Caulfield Cup with 58.5kg or more since 1972 - when metric weights were first used.

Hyperno (2nd with 59kg, 1980) is the best result. Anthony Van Dyke (2nd with 58.5kg, 2020), Kingston Town (3rd with 60kg, 1980) and Gunsynd (3rd with 62kg, 1972) were the others to place.

Since 1993, only two horses have run in the Caulfield Cup with at least 58.5kg - Subzero (12th, 1993) and Anthony Van Dyke (2nd, 2020)

 

[flibbertyjibber]

They do but a lot of imports from Europe race in Australia because:

A. There is depth in Europe at 1600m+
B. Australia hasn't had depth at 1600m+ for at last a decade to 12 years
C. The racing in Europe at 1600m+ is the best in the world.
D. The imports that come to Australia aren't good enough so Australia is the best option for them.

The best..the very best from Europe dont come to Australia...its the B/C/D Graders that come to Australia.

Australian racing doesn't breed good horses at 1600m+ in terms of quality in numbers/depth anymore which is sad.

Vauban may have only been a listed winner in France and Group 3 in Ireland but he is a proper Grade 1 horse over hurdles so has to be one of the best that has travelled for the Cup in recent years. I think he wins with his dick swinging.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Caulfield Cup

Nonconformist - scratched.

United Nations - in

 

[Molehill]

Vauban may have only been a listed winner in France and Group 3 in Ireland but he is a proper Grade 1 horse over hurdles so has to be one of the best that has travelled for the Cup in recent years. I think he wins with his dick swinging.

I don't think he's the best by a long way. The sadly ill fated Anthony Van Dyke won a Derby. But despite having hacked up in a Royal Ascot handicap and then a Group 3, I suspect Mullins still has him on the right side of the handicapper. The fact the horse he thrashed at RA (Absurde, also Mullins and also here) since won the Ebor certainly outlines that.

I don't know what price he is now (had seen 5-1 previously), but assuming they send Moore to ride him, I agree about dick swinging. He won at RA at 6-4 in a tough handicap, he ought to be about that here even if it's a Melbourne Cup.

Makes you wonder what Constitution Hill might achieve in this sphere given that Vauban was 20L behind him at Cheltenham.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Constitution Hill is a freak, will win 4 Champion Hurdles if he stays sound. He could win group races on the flat if the wanted. He is the best I have seen, was brilliant watching him at Cheltenham in March.

 

[Molehill]

Constitution Hill is a freak, will win 4 Champion Hurdles if he stays sound. He could win group races on the flat if the wanted. He is the best I have seen, was brilliant watching him at Cheltenham in March.

But are they really just going to run him 4 times a year for all that time? Newcastle, Kempton, Cheltenham, Aintree repeat? Surely, they have to switch it up at some point? Take him to Ireland, do something different. It's a shame he's with such a risk averse trainer.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

But are they really just going to run him 4 times a year for all that time? Newcastle, Kempton, Cheltenham, Aintree repeat? Surely, they have to switch it up at some point? Take him to Ireland, do something different. It's a shame he's with such a risk averse trainer.

He became more risk averse after taking Sprinter Sacre to Punchestown and him going wrong afterwards. With Altior and Shishkin since he has been ultra careful and will almost certainly do the same with Constitution Hill. Only Epatante has been properly raced but that may be due to JP owning her and calling the shots more.

 

[Molehill]

He became more risk averse after taking Sprinter Sacre to Punchestown and him going wrong afterwards. With Altior and Shishkin since he has been ultra careful and will almost certainly do the same with Constitution Hill. Only Epatante has been properly raced but that may be due to JP owning her and calling the shots more.

He's running 4 races a year and barely coming off the bit in 2 of those. I don't see why they couldn't go to Leopardstown between Xmas and Cheltenham and not screw up his Champion Hurdle chances. It's what Mullins usually does.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

He's running 4 races a year and barely coming off the bit in 2 of those. I don't see why they couldn't go to Leopardstown between Xmas and Cheltenham and not screw up his Champion Hurdle chances. It's what Mullins usually does.

Think he will do Fighting Fifth, Christmas Hurdle, Champion Hurdle and Punchestown this season and miss Aintree.

 

[WICFan]

A lot of talk about a new horse to the Henderson stable, Willmount.

Plan is to set him up for a crack at the Supreme Novices at Cheltenham.

 

[Molehill]

A lot of talk about a new horse to the Henderson stable, Willmount.

Plan is to set him up for a crack at the Supreme Novices at Cheltenham.

Yeah, for £350k you'd hope he'd be good. Not sure why they took him out of Mulholland's and sent him to Henderson (another expensive mare Break My Soul went too).

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Gold Trip is carrying 58.5kg in the Caulfield Cup.

17 horses have attempted to win the Caulfield Cup with 58.5kg or more since 1972 - when metric weights were first used, however only four have finished top 3:

Gunsynd - 3rd: 62kg (1972)

Hyperno - 2nd: 59kg (1980)

Kingston Town - 3rd: 60kg (1980)

Anthony Van Dyck - 2nd: 58.5kg (2020)

Since 1993, only two horses have run in the Caulfield Cup with at least 58.5kg - Subzero (12th, 1993) and Anthony Van Dyck (2020).

It would be some effort if Gold Trip were to win the Caulfield Cup.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Without A Fight wins the Caulfield Cup.


Caulfield Cup/Melbourne Cup Double

2001: Ethereal
1997: Might And Power
1995: Doriemus
1991: Let's Elope
1982: Gurner's Lane
1966: Galilee
1962: Even Stevens
1954: Rising Fast
1939: Rivette
1937: The Trump
1906: Posiedon

Melbourne Cup winners to run in the Caulfield Cup - Result in Caulfield Cup Since 1980

2022: Gold Trip - 2nd
2019: Vow And Declare - 2nd
2008: Viewed - 10th
2006: Delta Blues - 3rd
2004: Makybe Diva - 2nd
2003: Makybe Diva - 4th
2001: Ethereal - 1st
1999: Rogan Josh - 4th
1998: Jezabeel - 6th
1997: Might And Power - 1st
1995: Doriemus - 1st
1992: Subzero - 4th
1991: Let's Elope - 1st
1989: Tawriffic - 17th
1986: At Talaq - 2nd
1982: Guerner's Lane - 1st
1981: Just A Dash - 6th

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Race 1 at Royal Ascot...the G2 3100m WFA race....proper staying event run at a good clip...close finish too..if that doesn't get people excited then I don't know what will..

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Dubai Honour got beaten in the G1 Champions Stakes at Royal Ascot...yet comes to Australia and wins two G1s, including beating Anamoe.

Once again and quite rightly it puts into question what Anamoe was beating. Answer = not much. There isn't depth/quality in numbers in Australian racing currently and for the past decade at least at 1600m+

Oh well..

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Without A Fight - a 1kg weight penalty for the Melbourne Cup. Goes from 55.5kg to 56.5kg for the Melbourne Cup.

Without A Fight rises in the weights for the Lexus Melbourne Cup

Carlton Draught Caulfield Cup (2400m) hero Without A Fight has been penalised one kilogram and will now carry 56.5kg in the $8.4 million Lexus Melbourne Cup (3200m) as he bids to become the 12th horse in history to complete the cups double.

www.racingvictoria.com.au