***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

[Evermind]

And yet another absolutely pathetic batting performance from England. This is getting absolutely ridiculous now, even Scotland's part-timers could bat better than our lot.

What England need to do now is to play India at a neutral venue. No better way to register a few wins and get your form back against mentally weak opposition.

That said, what are Bell and Strauss doing in the team? They just don't seem to be ODI players. England need some big hitters - I think Dalrymple and Joyce also seem pretty lukewarm. I'm sure there're some better ODI specialists in the county circuit!

England's problems are similar to India's, it seems. Wasn't it Geoffrey Boycott who said that he's seen all the openers India are trying out, and they're all crap? So far, what I've seen of Uthappa, Gambhir, Jaffar...they're frighteningly unimpressive. One medium-big score and then ten failures. No Husseys or Clarkes on the horizon.

 

[Barney Rubble]

What? Why is that so funny? Hes shown in the c and g games he can tear them apart. I think he deserves a go. Certainly a better bet than strauss at the top, whos done nothin in odis for ages. I assume he could play straight away what with the rules the way they are at the mo...

It just doesn't make any sense. Why would you pick a random Scotsman who's shown no semblance of actual ability beyond a couple of lost-cause C&G efforts ahead of the likes of Benning, Afzaal, Sales or anyone else, let alone Strauss? Just seems completely left-field to me. Remember how well Gavin Hamilton did?

 

[albo97056]

It just doesn't make any sense. Why would you pick a random Scotsman who's shown no semblance of actual ability beyond a couple of lost-cause C&G efforts ahead of the likes of Benning, Afzaal, Sales or anyone else, let alone Strauss? Just seems completely left-field to me. Remember how well Gavin Hamilton did?

Yeh fair enough. There are others in front of him like those mentioned above. I was just suggesting this because of the posts before mine about scotland. If you watch him bat im sure youll realise he has some serious ability. Benning has to be tried at some point im certain

 

[Scaly piscine]

I think Strauss really needs to bat down the order, he's been hopeless as an ODI opener (except against Bangladesh), his ideal position is probably 4, but KP bats there and ideally Collingwood would be better at 4/5 as well. England could get away with all this a bit if they had a decent, established wicket-keeper batsman - but they don't. Of course there's nearly always a new batsman to international cricket and doing relatively badly (as opposed to Australia who'll bring someone in and they'll do well, or like with England's Test team when it was pretty good) which makes it even worse.

While England have such a lousy batting lineup I think they're wasting their time picking Panesar, Panesar would be fine if you were a good batting outfit, but he's never going to help defend the sort of crap totals England keep posting, or help bowl out a side for a low enough score that even England can chase. Stick with Tremlett or pick Broad and hope they, Flintoff, Lewis and Anderson can skittle a team, those four are a good variation of styles as well.

 

[wpdavid]

England's last 11 ODI innings, most recent first:


120 all out 37.5 overs
155 all out 42 overs (batting first)
206/7 49.5 overs
242/8 50 overs (first)
276/7 48.3 overs
169 all out 45 overs (first)
125 all out 37 overs (first)
155/7 31 overs
237/2 46.2 overs
271/9 50 overs (first)
166 all out 39.1 overs (first)

Only once has our batting lineup not been largely reduced to rubble (eventually).

Ugh. Actually, I suspect you could take it back even further - say to our summer 2004 series against WI & NZ - and get a similar picture. For me, that's when our oneday batting really started to go horribly wrong against all comers. Quite why is hard to say.

imo anyone who claims to know the answer is fibbing unless, uniquely in the history of the game, we have a bunch of batters good enough to flourish at international level who aren't in or around the test squad. Still, maybe I'd rather see them have a go than see the same old faces keep doing naff all in this form of the game.

 

[wpdavid]

I think Strauss really needs to bat down the order, he's been hopeless as an ODI opener (except against Bangladesh), his ideal position is probably 4, but KP bats there and ideally Collingwood would be better at 4/5 as well. England could get away with all this a bit if they had a decent, established wicket-keeper batsman - but they don't. Of course there's nearly always a new batsman to international cricket and doing relatively badly (as opposed to Australia who'll bring someone in and they'll do well, or like with England's Test team when it was pretty good) which makes it even worse.

While England have such a lousy batting lineup I think they're wasting their time picking Panesar, Panesar would be fine if you were a good batting outfit, but he's never going to help defend the sort of crap totals England keep posting, or help bowl out a side for a low enough score that even England can chase. Stick with Tremlett or pick Broad and hope they, Flintoff, Lewis and Anderson can skittle a team, those four are a good variation of styles as well.

I wondered why Tremlett didn't play today. I thought he looked promising against Aus and I'd like to have seen more of him. I suppose some will point out that Vettori clamed 4 wickets, but I think one spinner is enough for England unless it's turning square.

As for Strauss, I did suggest after KP got injured that he reverted to where he's made most of his decent scores. I thought today's dismissal was indicative of his lack of thought. He'd already taken a couple of 4's off the over, and it's not as if we were chasing loads anyway, but he thought he had to play across a straight one with the new ball moving around a bit. Not smart, and not for the first time.

It seems to be as much a mental thing as anything. Beyond Strauss' stupidity, we have Bell back to rabbit-in-the-headlights mode and Colly just freezing most of he time. These aren't obviously poor players, but they don't seem to have any sort of game plan.

EDIT
I meant to say about Strauss opening ....
Trouble is, who should open for us now that Tres is gone and Vaughan is fit about twice a year? It's far to early to judge Loye, but he didn't impress at all today.

 

[PY]

Loye and Cook perhaps?

Cook
Loye
Strauss *
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Nixon +
Dalrymple
Tremlett
Lewis
Anderson

Looks quite a good mix to me but Cook doesn't look like he's in the thoughts of the selectors?We're missing Tresco big time in the opening area.

 

[wpdavid]

Loye and Cook perhaps?

At the risk of repeating myself, Cook can consider himself unlucky not to have been picked since his 2 games when he averaged about 40. Thing is, if Strauss did bat at 4 and we're still going to play KP, Fred & Collingwood after him, then we need a keeper who can open the innings, otherwise we're a bowler short.

 

[wpdavid]

Loye and Cook perhaps?

Cook
Loye
Strauss *
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Nixon +
Dalrymple
Tremlett
Lewis
Anderson

I think Bell actually has a better oneday record than Strauss when batting in the top 3. That being said, they're all much of a muchness tbh.

 

[Matt52]

For all us kiwi's that regularly bag Franklin.... So far this series he has got 6 wickets at 21.5, and done a pretty good job. I was always a Franklin supporter but had recently given up on him becoming a good all rounder, but I will be looking carefully at his performances in the rest of the series.

He has a terrible bowling average for a one day player, especially an opening bowler , of just over 40. But, I was surprised at how few one dayers he has played. Just 51. Seems like he has been around forever but I suppose he just played a few games and then was dropped for a year and so on. So just with this performance today, 3/17, his bowling average has dropped down to 38. Nothing special I know, but it shows you have few games he has played when one game can have that much effect. A few more good games and he might have a respectable record.

I like the balance Franklin gives to the side. Being able to open the bowling and then contribute with the bat. Neither him nor Oram are genuine all rounders but I think both of them together contribute a lot to the side.

Im also pretty happy with our bowling stocks at the moment. Vettori and Patel in the spin department. Gillespie and Bond providing some pace, and Franklin and Oram as the all rounders. Add Mills into that group and I think those guys will go to the world cup. Mason surprised me by doing well against Aus but he is very hitable.

Its probably been said before but it might be THIS TIME that Franklin does what Chris Cairns and Richard Hadlee think he is capable of and secure a place in the side by doing well at international level.

 

[aussie]

Nixon's selection was just a waste, saw it from the start. If they wanted a solid batting keeper Pothas was the best bet. Now they are going to have to go back to Read.

 

[Fiery]

Neither him nor Oram are genuine all rounders but I think both of them together contribute a lot to the side.

What does Oram have to do to make him a genuine all rounder in your books Matt52?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think Bell actually has a better oneday record than Strauss when batting in the top 3. That being said, they're all much of a muchness tbh.

Bell has been extremely consistent when opening the batting. I haven't a clue why Fletcher feels the need to bat him at 3 when all his success has come opening the batting. Mind, maybe he wants to bat at 3, but I can't imagine why he would.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What does Oram have to do to make him a genuine all rounder in your books Matt52?

Can't speak for Matt, but the answer for me would be pretty simple: score runs.

He doesn't do it often enough to be anything other than a bowling allrounder.

 

[Fiery]

Can't speak for Matt, but the answer for me would be pretty simple: score runs.

He doesn't do it often enough to be anything other than a bowling allrounder.

Is a test average of 40 good enough to be considered a batsman?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Is a test average of 40 good enough to be considered a batsman?

Not in ODI cricket.

 

[wpdavid]

Bell has been extremely consistent when opening the batting. I haven't a clue why Fletcher feels the need to bat him at 3 when all his success has come opening the batting. Mind, maybe he wants to bat at 3, but I can't imagine why he would.

I thought that might be the case, but I didn't have the time to check.
Trouble is, who else would bat at 3? In some ways, it's an even tougher job than opening in the oneday game.

btw my wife & I were trying to work out where the song lyrics under your message came from. I thought I recognised them, but couldn't nail them. Cheers mate.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I thought that might be the case, but I didn't have the time to check.
Trouble is, who else would bat at 3? In some ways, it's an even tougher job than opening in the oneday game.

btw my wife & I were trying to work out where the song lyrics under your message came from. I thought I recognised them, but couldn't nail them. Cheers mate.

Matisyahu - King Without A Crown.

 

[Fiery]

Not in ODI cricket.

So...let me get this straight, like Matt52 you don't think Jacob Oram is a genuine all rounder in ODIs despite the fact he bats at 6 and bowls first change

 

[wpdavid]

Matisyahu - King Without A Crown.

Thanks. As it happens, it's not someone we've heard of after all, but sounds good anyway.