***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08

[SJS]

Good point, although you could see he was pretty emotionally charged up and extremely angry as he left the ground after his dismissal. Perhaps a comment said in anger and later regretted during hindsight?

You are probably right.

From what one has seen of him, Dhoni is likely to realise his folly and try to make it up to Rohit and be careful in the future.

 

[Burgey]

Dhoni may have been disappointed for being run out at a crucial stage but he had no business to say on the world stage that even with his cramps he would have made the run that Rohit couldn't. He should have been graceful and said that he cant blame anyone since he had called for it himself.

Sharma must be feeling the earth should open up ans swallow him since the skipper said that this is what changed the match and that Rohit was standing inside the crease without taking a start. That may have been so but this was certainly not the place to say it.

Bad form skipper.

It's interesting he made that comment, because the dynamics in running for someone are so different. As a runner, one would, I imagine - I'm so slow I've never done it- be very conscious of remaining well behind the crease, in order to remove any doubt fromt eh umpire's mind that you are even close to out. That being so, it may explain why Sharma didn't back up very far, if at all.
I didn't think Dhoni was super fast as a runner either, but what I've seen of him, he usually hits boundaries & doesn't have to run, so I don't really know!

 

[duffer]

I too love staright shooting types. Thats why some of my favourite commentators are that type but there is an added burden that leadership imposes.

Become a leader and you will learn ... I hope.

Agree completely about understanding the burden of leadership but I think Dhoni's applying the "different strokes for different folks" principle with his treatment of Rohit.

Some people will think he's being irresponsible but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. His captaincy of India so far merits him that much IMO.

 

[Jnr.]

Who said anything about praisng the player in the media.

If Dhoni had just said our bowlers did a great job but our batsmen threw it away with irresponsible batting it was enough. Then if he went to the dressing room and talked to individual players of what he thought they had done wrong, how would it be a 'conflicting message' ?

Or if he excused Rohit's running in the press (if he said something like, "these things happen"), then criticised him in the dressing room? Sometimes, players perform better after a rocket in the press. I hope that's the case for Rohit and I'm confident that it will be.

 

[Burgey]

Richard tbf

That will get back.

 

[howardj]

Here's an idea...what about a team just aim for 0/20 off the first 10 overs against Australia. Honestly, it's insane how many times teams lose 2 or 3 wickets in the first ten overs. Australia invariably always win their games this way.

 

[irfan]

Here's an idea...what about a team just aim for 0/20 off the first 10 overs against Australia. Honestly, it's insane how many times teams lose 2 or 3 wickets in the first ten overs. Australia invariably always win their games this way.

These teams won't. Both India and SL share this preconceived notion that to beat Australia you have to belt the new ball bowlers out of the park and get off to a flying start. As u say, when they do that they invariably lose a wicket or two and then Australia are brilliant at performing the chokehold and suffocating the middle order.
Aside from Dhoni today, no one was prepared to graft and work the ball around - they all wanted to play big shots and then ended up in the pavillion without too much to show for thir brazen strokeplay.
Why can't they watch and emulate Clarke's innings today and Hussey's the other ??
Not many boundaries but plenty of singles and aggressive intent in picking up runs by singles, not necessarily playing the big glamour shots. Both India's and SL's recent losses to Australia have been due to poor batting under good, tight bowling.

Let's look at India's dismissals today
Gambhir - short and wide and straight down point's throat. Another soft dismissal to add to his ever growing collection. Especially dissappointing as he was looking good.
Tendulkar - Undone by a Bracken jaffa. Great bowling
Pathan - Edged to slip by a decent Hopes ball.
Sharma - Flashed wildly to a straight ball at 130 odd 's which did absolutely nothing in the air or off the seam. Stupid shot
Yuvraj - Shot was on - but really should have kept it on the ground with fielders all on the fence.
Dhoni - Runout. Dicey call but Rohit shouldn't have been at his laurels when backing up. Needed every single we could get
Uthappa - Gave Gilly catching practice - stupid way of getting out especially after having drilled the previous ball
Harbhajan - Still thinks he's Desmond Haynes when all that was needed was support to Uthappa.
Sreesanth - Pathetic really, surely he should have known Hogg would lure him out and lo and behold he fell for it
Sharma & Patel - Meh. Game was over by then

It's a real shame we lost this especially after a fantastic bowling effort where only Ponting really threw his wicket away and Clarke was unlucky to find the fielder - most of the rest of the dismissals were as a result of good bowling. Missed an absolute golden chance to win two consecutive ODIs against Australia and really put them on the backfoot for the rest of the series.

 

[howardj]

These teams won't. Both India and SL share this preconceived notion that to beat Australia you have to belt the new ball bowlers out of the park and get off to a flying start. As u say, when they do that they invariably lose a wicket or two and then Australia are brilliant at performing the chokehold and suffocating the middle order.
Aside from Dhoni today, no one was prepared to graft and work the ball around - they all wanted to play big shots and then ended up in the pavillion without too much to show for thir brazen strokeplay.
Why can't they watch and emulate Clarke's innings today and Hussey's the other ??
Not many boundaries but plenty of singles and aggressive intent in picking up runs by singles, not necessarily playing the big glamour shots. Both India's and SL's recent losses to Australia have been due to poor batting under good, tight bowling.

Let's look at India's dismissals today
Gambhir - short and wide and straight down point's throat. Another soft dismissal to add to his ever growing collection. Especially dissappointing as he was looking good.
Tendulkar - Undone by a Bracken jaffa. Great bowling
Pathan - Edged to slip by a decent Hopes ball.
Sharma - Flashed wildly to a straight ball at 130 odd 's which did absolutely nothing in the air or off the seam. Stupid shot
Yuvraj - Shot was on - but really should have kept it on the ground with fielders all on the fence.
Dhoni - Runout. Dicey call but Rohit shouldn't have been at his laurels when backing up. Needed every single we could get
Uthappa - Gave Gilly catching practice - stupid way of getting out especially after having drilled the previous ball
Harbhajan - Still thinks he's Desmond Haynes when all that was needed was support to Uthappa.
Sreesanth - Pathetic really, surely he should have known Hogg would lure him out and lo and behold he fell for it
Sharma & Patel - Meh. Game was over by then

.

Yeah spot on. I mean, this is international cricket, and some of the batting is just miserable. When you're chasing 200, at least make the opposition bowlers get you out. Is constantly being 4 for 70 international standard? It's rubbish cricket at the moment - domestic standard. Where is the fight and the 'over my dead body' mindset? I mean, are Johnson, Clark and Bracken all time greats? World beaters?

 

[adharcric]

Completely agree with SJS here - hopefully Dhoni's relation with his players is strong enough that this slip-up doesn't really matter in the end (and I get a feeling that it's quite strong) but something like that generally isn't on in a public leadership role. Nevertheless, my admiration for Dhoni - as a cricketer, learner, leader and from the looks of it, as a person - continues to grow.

Gambhir, Tendulkar, Sharma, Yuvraj, Raina, Dhoni, Pathan, Bhajji, Sreesanth, Ishant, Munaf

By the way, playing five bowlers and having a 9-10-11 as weak as that (batting-wise, especially since Sreesanth has some talent but tends to bat like an idiot) may just be asking for trouble. Of course, it shouldn't really be an issue as long as our batsmen don't throw away their wickets - Sharma had to learn his lesson but poor form from Yuvraj. He was looking good once again but one could tell that he was really feeling it and got too excited whereas the win was there for the taking through mere singles and occupying the strike. He's supposed to be the new "senior" player here and he has batted responsibly over the past few seasons, but this was a bad reminder of the way he used to bat earlier. Trust him to be back to normal soon though.

 

[Pratters]

Odd, because I've been really impressed with Dhoni. The way he handles his team is terrific, the way he leads from the front in terms of batting and wicket keeping is brilliant and the way he's seemed to have grown a great cricketing brain instead of being an Indian Shahid Afridi is even better. Most of the younger guys seem really comfortable with him too, and I'm sure Dhoni will get over that Rohit Sharma run out since he's a pretty cool and calm sort of guy.

If you have read my posts over time, I have praised Dhoni for his keeeping and batting improvements. I am not talking about those aspects though. He has shown a fair few flaws and don't see how you do not see them:

a) Playing Tiwari not soon after he arrived when there was the option of playing Raina.

b) Going for Pathan batting at 3 and demoting Gambhir after Gambhir had made a 100 batting at 3. Don't we realise the importance of a settled number 3 in ODI's? WTF are we doing playing Pathan at 3. It isn't as if we needed a floater as we were chasing fairly low totals.

c) b also meant that we had Uthappa batting at freaking 8 in that game.

d) Going public criticising a team mate and treating his team mate so badly after the run out. Why the hell was Dhoni rushing to the dressing room way ahead of Sharma. He should have had the grace to walk together with him.

e) There are minor aspects as well. We should have bowled Ishant probably today but Dhoni didn't. Don't know whether he was injured though.

f) Dropping Ganguly. From all accords it was Dhoni who moved it and I would have to agree to disagree with you (and any one who disagrees with me on this as I am tired of debate on the topic) but where I am concerned, it is a nonsense move.

Haven't been impressed much with Dhoni of late as I said.

 

[Jono]

I am possibly Yuvraj's biggest fan on these boards, but his shot was the turning point in the match.

Gambhir and Sharma's were horrid, but Yuvraj and Dhoni were cruising (and Australia had given consecutive overthrows) just before Yuvraj's stupid pull shot.

Credit to Australia though, best team at defending low totals. India bowled well but their batsmen failed them.

 

[Jono]

Oh and regarding Dhoni's comments after the game, I missed them but it sounds like he roasted Sharma. Dhoni was pissed off enough right after the dismissal anyway.

I am not sure what my opinion is. Whilst I think its wrong for him to hang Sharma out to dry and defend Yuvraj whenever he has the chance, I do think its great to see so much passion and drive in Dhoni. He's really an inspiration.

Mind you, at the end of the day, why the **** did Dhoni call the run? Wasn't necessary!

 

[SJS]

If you have read my posts over time, I have praised Dhoni for his keeeping and batting improvements. I am not talking about those aspects though. He has shown a fair few flaws and don't see how you do not see them:

a) Playing Tiwari not soon after he arrived when there was the option of playing Raina.

b) Going for Pathan batting at 3 and demoting Gambhir after Gambhir had made a 100 batting at 3. Don't we realise the importance of a settled number 3 in ODI's? WTF are we doing playing Pathan at 3. It isn't as if we needed a floater as we were chasing fairly low totals.

c) b also meant that we had Uthappa batting at freaking 8 in that game.

d) Going public criticising a team mate and treating his team mate so badly after the run out. Why the hell was Dhoni rushing to the dressing room way ahead of Sharma. He should have had the grace to walk together with him.

e) There are minor aspects as well. We should have bowled Ishant probably today but Dhoni didn't. Don't know whether he was injured though.

f) Dropping Ganguly. From all accords it was Dhoni who moved it and I would have to agree to disagree with you (and any one who disagrees with me on this as I am tired of debate on the topic) but where I am concerned, it is a nonsense move.

Haven't been impressed much with Dhoni of late as I said.

I was talking to a cricketer friend from Delhi half an hour ago. He felt that Dhoni is not comfortable with the seniors around as it dilutes his importance. He would rather take his chances with the youngsters and get credit for grooming the youngsters, believing in them, have a team solidly behind him accentuating his leadership qualities rather than have seniors who will eventually hog the limelight with sheer performance.

He felt Dhoni would rather have even Sachin out of the side but he is still not BIG enough to say it yet but it will come at the first sign of fallibility by the Little Master. In the meantime dont expect Dhoni to go overboard in lavishing praise on Sachin but be prepared for tongue in cheek remarks of criticising the top order every time Sachin fails. He also mentioned that if Dhoni can have his way, Dravid and Ganguly may have played their last odi's.

Interesting thoughts.

 

[Jono]

Or alternatively...

Dhoni wanted a good fielding team, and to build for the future.

 

[Pratters]

I was talking to a cricketer friend from Delhi half an hour ago. He felt that Dhoni is not comfortable with the seniors around as it dilutes his importance. He would rather take his chances with the youngsters and get credit for grooming the youngsters, believing in them, have a team solidly behind him accentuating his leadership qualities rather than have seniors who will eventually hog the limelight with sheer performance.

He felt Dhoni would rather have even Sachin out of the side but he is still not BIG enough to say it yet but it will come at the first sign of fallibility by the Little Master. In the meantime dont expect Dhoni to go overboard in lavishing praise on Sachin but be prepared for tongue in cheek remarks of criticising the top order every time Sachin fails. He also mentioned that if Dhoni can have his way, Dravid and Ganguly may have played their last odi's.

Interesting thoughts.

Yeah, interesting indeed SJS. If Dhoni feels that way, he is being very stupid. The seniors might create problems but so do newer players. If he feels that he can lay rest to problems by casting aside seniors, he would be deluding himself. He needs to know how to deal with his team, failing which, it can lead to divisions in the team as adharcric also feared.

 

[SJS]

Or alternatively...

Dhoni wanted a good fielding team, and to build for the future.

I agree with the concept of having a good fielding side but you cant win games with eleven good fielders. Someone has to score the runs and someone has to take wickets. Batting and bowling skills have to be kept in mind and weighed alongwith the fielding skills.

I do not see how Munaf Patel can make the squad with his obnoxious fielding if that is the sole criteria. It cant be anyone's case that Munaf Patel's bowling has greater merit than Ganguly's batting.

 

[jeevan]

I was talking to a cricketer friend from Delhi half an hour ago. He felt that Dhoni is not comfortable with the seniors around as it dilutes his importance. He would rather take his chances with the youngsters and get credit for grooming the youngsters, believing in them, have a team solidly behind him accentuating his leadership qualities rather than have seniors who will eventually hog the limelight with sheer performance.

He felt Dhoni would rather have even Sachin out of the side but he is still not BIG enough to say it yet but it will come at the first sign of fallibility by the Little Master. In the meantime dont expect Dhoni to go overboard in lavishing praise on Sachin but be prepared for tongue in cheek remarks of criticising the top order every time Sachin fails. He also mentioned that if Dhoni can have his way, Dravid and Ganguly may have played their last odi's.

Interesting thoughts.

This is like the difference between being a warlord and a general. Hope your friend is wrong and that Dhoni is the latter and not the former. (Though I think we have no basis for proving that your friend is wrong, and have some basis for suspecting that he isnt).

The fact that somewhat knowledgable people are even speculating this, validates the decision to not have Dhoni be the test captain as well. Can you imagine similar reasoning being applied to Tendulkar,Ganguly,Dravid and also to Laxman,Kumble and Jaffer. (Quite apart from the fact that Kumble's turned out to be a good one).

 

[social]

Australia and SL finished 1/2 in the last WC, India finished nowhere.

Give the Indians time ffs!

 

[SJS]

This is like the difference between being a warlord and a general. Hope your friend is wrong and that Dhoni is the latter and not the former. (Though I think we have no basis for proving that your friend is wrong, and have some basis for suspecting that he isnt).

The fact that somewhat knowledgable people are even speculating this, validates the decision to not have Dhoni be the test captain as well. Can you imagine similar reasoning being applied to Tendulkar,Ganguly,Dravid and also to Laxman,Kumble and Jaffer. (Quite apart from the fact that Kumble's turned out to be a good one).

You are right there is no way to say whether he is right. He is a senior former cricketer and one tends to treat his comments with respect.

But you have to see Dhoni's comments on the match and its a bit funny.

- He criticised the batting saying "The batsmen should have taken the initiative and been more careful about their shot selection,"

But when asked about individual batsmen he gives at least three of them a clean chit.

Yuvraj :- Dhoni, however, didn't blame the batsman for taking the risk. "The shot was on," Dhoni said, adding that the execution had been faulty. So no problem with the shot selection in Yuvi's case.

Irfan : rfan Pathan was pushed up to No. 3, but the move failed yet again, as it had at the MCG in India's previous match against Australia, when Pathan managed a 30-ball 18. Dhoni, though, defended the move. "Sending Irfan up balances the batting order and keep it stable. And Irfan at 8 or 3 doesn't make too much of a difference."

So Irfan wasn't expected to do more at number three than he does at number eight. No problems with him too.

Uthappa :- "..it was difficult for Robin [Uthappa] to lead the rearguard with the tail."

So no issues with Uthappa. Add Dhoni to these three and that leaves only Sachin, Rohit and Gambhir. He lets go a bit more of what he thinks when he says "The first 12 overs with the Kookaburra ball is important and without Brett Lee it was important to keep wickets because it gets easier with the ball getting old and if you have the batsmen then it's an advantage."

Does sound like the earlier batsmen failed to play the first dozen or so overs after which the others could have had an easier time.

How many players got out in the first twelve overs, only one actually? Is that really so bad ? Why should Dhoni talk of keeping wickets in tact for the first 1 overs? Makes it sound as if India lost quite a few in those dozen overs. The only batsman that got out in that time was Tendulkar in the 5th over.

Reading too much into it... maybe... then again...

Lets keep a watch and hope there is nothing seriously amiss.

 

[jeevan]

You are right there is no way to say whether he is right. He is a senior former cricketer and one tends to treat his comments with respect.

But you have to see Dhoni's comments on the match and its a bit funny.

- He criticised the batting saying "The batsmen should have taken the initiative and been more careful about their shot selection,"

But when asked about individual batsmen he gives at least three of them a clean chit.

Yuvraj :- Dhoni, however, didn't blame the batsman for taking the risk. "The shot was on," Dhoni said, adding that the execution had been faulty. So no problem with the shot selection in Yuvi's case.

Irfan : rfan Pathan was pushed up to No. 3, but the move failed yet again, as it had at the MCG in India's previous match against Australia, when Pathan managed a 30-ball 18. Dhoni, though, defended the move. "Sending Irfan up balances the batting order and keep it stable. And Irfan at 8 or 3 doesn't make too much of a difference."

So Irfan wasn't expected to do more at number three than he does at number eight. No problems with him too.

Uthappa :- "..it was difficult for Robin [Uthappa] to lead the rearguard with the tail."

So no issues with Uthappa. Add Dhoni to these three and that leaves only Sachin, Rohit and Gambhir. He lets go a bit more of what he thinks when he says "The first 12 overs with the Kookaburra ball is important and without Brett Lee it was important to keep wickets because it gets easier with the ball getting old and if you have the batsmen then it's an advantage."

Does sound like the earlier batsmen failed to play the first dozen or so overs after which the others could have had an easier time.

How many players got out in the first twelve overs, only one actually? Is that really so bad ? Why should Dhoni talk of keeping wickets in tact for the first 1 overs? Makes it sound as if India lost quite a few in those dozen overs. The only batsman that got out in that time was Tendulkar in the 5th over.

Reading too much into it... maybe... then again...

Lets keep a watch and hope there is nothing seriously amiss.

I quite agree that Dhoni's remarks are in singularly poor taste and judgement.

Singling out Rohit Sharma (if he did) is a big no-no.

I am totally and utterly unable to buy the explanation that this is OK with Rohit Sharma's personality but that Yuvraj requires tender maintenance. The former is atleast as much a potential match winner as the latter, and unless he is a mechanical robot - needs to be treated with just as much respect.

Also what you say is correct. India were doing fine at the end of over 10 and 11. In fact all the way until Yuvraj's dismissal there was significant optimism. (Though Gambhir, Rohit should've been a bit more careful as well).