**Official** Australia in West Indies

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yea i know the law, was just saying i can understand why Tiffin gave them out given the how the ball was reversing given that a few were ridiculing his ability.

But if Tiffin saw that it hit him outside the line, he shouldn't have given him out. Regardless of what the ball was doing. Simple as.

 

[aussie]

No. It doesn't matter what he thought or how much the ball was reversing. That is irrelevant to his decision, and if he gave it out despite knowing the players were hit outside the line of off stump while playing a shot, then it's worse than mere incompetence.

Either he thought they were hit in line of off stump and he displayed his relative incompetence, or he knew they weren't and he displayed his (I don't even know what to call it).

Ha, all true but i reckon a lot of umpires would give that out TBH. Its wasn't your normal decision where a right-handed batsman had a decent stride & got hit outside off & the umpire thus had to give the benefit of the doubt. It was just obvious it was going to hit.

In the 2005 Ashes when Clarke & Katich where bowling by leaving alone deliveries i'm pretty sure if they where hit on the pad they would have been given out given that position outside the line of off-stump.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Haddin isn't worse than Gilchrist of the last two years. Langer was better as an opener, but Symonds is better than he was, and so is Clarke. Hussey is still going strong.

But "good as ever" isn't restricted to the last two years. In his prime Gilchrist would bat circles around Haddin. Yes, he was good enough to bat circles.

 

[silentstriker]

But "good as ever" isn't restricted to the last two years. In his prime Gilchrist would bat circles around Haddin. Yes, he was good enough to bat circles.

Sure. But then if you go back when Gilchrist was running circles, then Hussey didn't exist and Symonds and Clarke were not who they are. Overall, I do think its as strong as its been anytime since they became the best side in the world.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sure. But then if you go back when Gilchrist was running circles, then Hussey didn't exist and Symonds and Clarke were not who they are. Overall, I do think its as strong as its been anytime since they became the best side in the world.

Well let's take Gilchrist out of his prime. Presently Haddin is no better than Gilchrist at the tail end of his career.

This batting lineup:

JL Langer
ML Hayden
RT Ponting (before 2007/08)
DR Martyn
MJ Clarke
MEK Hussey
AC Gilchrist +

...is better than...

PA Jaques
SM Katich
RT Ponting (2007/08 to present)
MEK Hussey
MJ Clarke
A Symonds
B Haddin +

Surely...

 

[silentstriker]

Well let's take Gilchrist out of his prime. Presently Haddin is no better than Gilchrist at the tail end of his career.

This batting lineup:

JL Langer
ML Hayden
RT Ponting (before 2007/08)
DR Martyn
MJ Clarke
MEK Hussey
AC Gilchrist +

...is better than...

PA Jaques
SM Katich
RT Ponting (2007/08 to present)
MEK Hussey
MJ Clarke
A Symonds
B Haddin +

Surely...

Yes, I was counting Hayden. I thought you meant Australia's first choice. If you take Hayden out and just look at the lineup that played this test, I would agree with you. I'm not sure why I thought you meant it with Hayden, but I was thinking about it with Hayden.

 

[Burgey]

Well I have to say the draw saved the umpires' collective blushes in this game. WD to WI and Chanderpaul and Sarwan in particular.
Lee continues to get better & better for us, while Johnson doesn't.

 

[howardj]

My sources in the Carribean inform me that Shane Watson will today be called up to replace Matthew Hayden.

More to come... lol.

 

[Laurrz]

Good game, although the pitch was atrocious.. nothing giving for bowlers at all (except reverse swing i suppose, but that is natural) no bounce and life on the wicket *sigh

next game in Barbados i think there will be some bounce.. and Windies will definitely want a wicket where taking 20 wickets is really likely... they can be dangerous in this situation

Although they get Gayle back....whos a dangerous batsman and terrific captain and a handy spinner... we actually get a decent bowler in our team at last, we've been playing with 3 bowlers and some part timers for the entire series but finally we will be getting some support... if he sucks atleast he can bat (Casson is a better batsman than Lee to put it into perspective)
i hope they pick Noffers but they will go with Casson

Chanderpaul is impossible to get out nowadays.. when will this crazy form end??

---

indeed Watto has replaced Haydos - on cricinfo now

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Australia's actually been playing with 2 bowlers all series. Mitchell Johnson was hardly better than MacGill. He wasn't quite as bad, but largely because pace is usually more forgiving than wrist-spin when it's going badly. This, outside of dry, dusty (or worn) pitches, at least.

Johnson hasn't looked like taking wickets except for very occasionally, and the only time he's really been tidy has been when he's bowling too wide to threaten the batsmen. Lee and Clark have been excellent, but both Johnson and MacGill have been poor. It's not just been MacGill.

 

[Julian87]

Bollinger needs to come in for Johnson. Casson or Noffke for MacGill and the bowling lineup is a lot better, as is the batting.

 

[Laurrz]

Australia's actually been playing with 2 bowlers all series. Mitchell Johnson was hardly better than MacGill. He wasn't quite as bad, but largely because pace is usually more forgiving than wrist-spin when it's going badly. This, outside of dry, dusty (or worn) pitches, at least.

Johnson hasn't looked like taking wickets except for very occasionally, and the only time he's really been tidy has been when he's bowling too wide to threaten the batsmen. Lee and Clark have been excellent, but both Johnson and MacGill have been poor. It's not just been MacGill.

fair enough

then again he pitches are quite unresponsive..recn if its a greenish pitch with bounce Midge may carve up
even on the most spin friendly pitch i can see macgill getting murdered

 

[Athlai]

I know this is a bit of an annoying thing to point out but Australia are certainly on the decline, Warne + McGrath Australian attack would have won this. Though Congratulations to the West Indies.

 

[JBH001]

Lee continues to get better & better for us, while Johnson doesn't.

Lee is an out and out champion. Johnson has always been over-rated. Never got the props being placed on him during the summer series vs SL and Ind (hand position or no hand position). Although, tbf, it is early days yet for a young quick - but I just dont see the potential and reason for the fuss.

Well done to the WI for a good draw. And good work by Sarwan and Chanders.

Here's hoping that WI can take the next text and draw the series.

 

[howardj]

I've been saying for quite some time that (at this early stage of his career) Johnson is similar to Bracken, in the sense that both are very good ODI bowlers, and can make the white ball talk. In the Test Match theatre though, they both struggle to do anything other than take the ball across the batsman at good pace.

 

[Laurrz]

I've been saying for quite some time that (at this early stage of his career) Johnson is similar to Bracken, in the sense that both are very good ODI bowlers, and can make the white ball talk. In the Test Match theatre though, they both struggle to do anything other than take the ball across the batsman at good pace.

its funny

they are both among two of the best quicks in the world for mine in ODI's that consistently swing the white ball even when conditions are only mildly conducive to swing bowling..... but with the red ball.. (havent seen Bracken with red ball in ages) Johnson is just wow completely different

 

[howardj]

With Watson being drafted in for Haydos, it got me thinking that, maybe for the forseeable future until we unearth a decent tweaker, our strength in the Test arena might lie with our all-rounders (like Watson and Symonds) and that the selectors will structure the team accordingly. I certainly think, to that end, Watson has a role to play in India in October. No point, at this stage, picking a spinner for the sake of it.

EDIT Maybe add Noffers to that list also.

 

[pasag]

With Watson being drafted in for Haydos, it got me thinking that, maybe for the forseeable future until we unearth a decent tweaker, our strength in the Test arena might lie with our all-rounders (like Watson and Symonds) and that the selectors will structure the team accordingly. I certainly think, to that end, Watson has a role to play in India in October. No point, at this stage, picking a spinner for the sake of it.

EDIT Maybe add Noffers to that list also.

As much as I and any other Watson fan would love that, I think he needs more FC under his belt to be able to prove his fitness. Him breaking down in India doesn't help anybody.

 

[Top_Cat]

I know this is a bit of an annoying thing to point out but Australia are certainly on the decline, Warne + McGrath Australian attack would have won this.

That's far from guaranteed, though, and even with Warne and McGrath in the team, I reckon they woudl have struggled to push for a result. Worse batsmen have batted out the day against those two;

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ausvrsa/content/story/229670.html

When the pitch is that flat, it's pretty tough to get blokes out who are intent on staying there, no matter who they are.

 

[pasag]

Chanderpaul averaging 106 over the past 12 months, Lee averaging 20 with the ball as well over the same period.