***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[BlazeDragon]

Time to blood in Tim Paine in all 3 formats, Haddin's time has long passed.

Uhhh he's not very popular in this forum with people that follow first class cricket. I brought him up too once and it turned into Tim Paine bashing. He doesn't have a very good FC record from what it seems like. I think people here would rather have Matthew Wade.

Then again Marsh was getting about the same type of treatment....

 

[Son Of Coco]

Agree with all of that, Johnson is a matchwinner and if Harris and Copeland play there should be less pressure on him. I think it has got to the stage though that he puts too much pressure on himself now and underperforms. maybe the happy hunting ground of SA will spark him into life again.

This is the main problem with Johnson. The bloke's a zombie. If a doctor let a patient flatline as long as Johnson does before 'coming to life' he'd be de-registered.

Hopefully he does something again in SA, it gets frustrating having to rely on a wing and a prayer with him though.

 

[GotSpin]

This is the main problem with Johnson. The bloke's a zombie. If a doctor let a patient flatline as long as Johnson does before 'coming to life' he'd be de-registered.

Hopefully he does something again in SA, it gets frustrating having to rely on a wing and a prayer with him though.

But don't you know, the guy is a match winner...

 

[Son Of Coco]

I now realise that when Dennis Lillee described Johnson as a 'once in a lifetime bowler' that he was actually talking about how often he'd perform.

 

[NasserFan207]

I now realise that when Dennis Lillee described Johnson as a 'once in a lifetime bowler' that he was actually talking about how often he'd perform.

This deserves a round of applause

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think some else said something similar in another thread recently...I could get done for plagiarism.

 

[Spikey]

Uhhh he's not very popular in this forum with people that follow first class cricket. I brought him up too once and it turned into Tim Paine bashing. He doesn't have a very good FC record from what it seems like. I think people here would rather have Matthew Wade.

Then again Marsh was getting about the same type of treatment....

it's just we'd rather wait for Paine to actually have a good FC season which he hasn't really - one fc ton in a match 5 seasons ago where he didn't keep. Given Haddin was one of our best at the ashes and at the world cup it'd be absurd to throw him out because of a bad SL tour.

haddin's a smart man to retire from t20 right now - means Paine will miss the first shield game

 

[Sylvester]

Haddin is a given for the tour, still got some brownie points plus Paine hasn't played a match since who knows when.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Time to blood in Tim Paine in all 3 formats, Haddin's time has long passed.

T20I's maybe, Tests possibly soon, but ODI's **** no!

List A: 81 matches, SR 69.11
ODI's: 26 matches, SR 68.87

Block 5 balls, then slog. He puts massive pressure on opening partners.

How he is even considered as an ODI keeper/opener baffles me.

 

[robelinda]

His odi batting method is very 1986. His results make Geoff Marsh seem like Afridi.

 

[BlazeDragon]

it's just we'd rather wait for Paine to actually have a good FC season which he hasn't really - one fc ton in a match 5 seasons ago where he didn't keep. Given Haddin was one of our best at the ashes and at the world cup it'd be absurd to throw him out because of a bad SL tour.

haddin's a smart man to retire from t20 right now - means Paine will miss the first shield game

Haddin was actually one of my best rated Aussie players after the world cup. But that SL tour just showed that he is horrible against spinners and when they get going he will struggle.

Agree about his T20 retirement being a right move. He should work on formats that actually matters now.

 

[Top_Cat]

Two things: Doug bullied Pakistan and West Indies, and you don't see the players or anyone in the hierarchy wanting him back. Cricket Australia obviously have to take some responsibility for what happened, but the longer that this goes on, the more that you have to start thinking that he didn't take the personal responsibility to get himself as right as he could be, and that his team-mates felt let down by that. He's never had the reputation for being the hardest worker.

Yeah, since the Adelaide Test, you'd think team members would be talking him up in the press if he was actually in contention.

Also, I'm no massive fan of Haddin but if anyone, let alone Paine, wants to be considered for a Test spot, they need to be at least as good as Haddin with bat or gloves. Haddin's no genius but there's no-one putting pressure on his place right now.

 

[robelinda]

No-one seems to remember Bollinger's fine work in that India test before the Ashes, before he got injured he was the best in that test. I'd wager we would've won if he could've bowled at the end.

 

[NUFAN]

I don't understand how people lump Siddle into the same category as Johnson. I think that they are completely different bowlers.

Siddle gets tagged as an inconsistent bowler, but I fully believe that he's learned a great deal being in the Test setup for the past 3 years. His performance in the final Test vs Sri Lanka was encouraging, he said he realized he needed to pitch the ball up more and for the most part, he did this. The delivery to dismiss Sangakarra who was looking sublime on 79 was a beauty.

 

[Spikey]

They're completely different bowlers in every sense....except for performance. Where they're pretty much the same - An awesome 'best bowler in the world' performance, a long stretch of mediocrity although with slight differences, MJ gets 1-2 wickets per innings in this time, Siddle gets 0-1. MJ makes up for getting more wickets by then putting in just a shocking performance which Siddle avoids, and then there's the awesome performance again.


Now why Siddle does this time and time again we have no idea 'cause there's nothing wrong with his action or anything.

 

[adub]

No-one seems to remember Bollinger's fine work in that India test before the Ashes, before he got injured he was the best in that test. I'd wager we would've won if he could've bowled at the end.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Even Ponting's appalling fields probably wouldn't have saved India if Doug had been able to bowl that last afternoon.

Head to head Dougeh has been better or the equal of all the other guys he's bowled with. You can only take wickets in the games you're selected for and if his wickets are cheap because they were against weak opposition it doesn't say much for the other bowlers in the side who have worse or equal records in the same games.

Doug v Johnson (11 tests)
DB 49 @ 23.79 s/r 45.4 v MJ 49 @ 28.59 s/r 50.4

Doug v Siddle (6 tests)
DB 20 @ 32.00 s/r 63.8 v PS 17 @ 36.23 s/r 76.2

Doug v Harris (3 tests)
DB 13 @ 29.38 s/r 45.6 v RH 11 @ 26.45 s/r 54.0

Doug v Hilf (3 tests)
DB 10 @ 26.30 s/r 46.2 v BH 12 @ 28.91 s/r 52.9

Dough v Watson (10 tests)
DB 41 @ 25.78 s/r 46.2 v SW 22 @ 22.50 s/r 46.5

That's a pretty handy record for a guy not considered worthy of a spot in a squad with 4 of these 5 guys he's bowled with. Johnson's taken as many wickets as him, but at far greater cost and slower strike rate, Harris has him for average but has taken less wickets at much slower s/r, Watson has done nicely with a better average and compatible s/r but they have different roles so only added for completeness' sake. Mr Siddle, well Dougeh hasn't been at his best in the tests he's played with Phar Lap, but running in all day sure hasn't helped Pete conjure up wickets now has it?

It was Hildud crap that saw him out. The reason why you won't hear players talking him up is because you just don't do it. To talk up someone outside of the side is to by inference you must be saying one of your current team mates isn't up to it and the selector's have made a mistake. You will always only hear in public player's being supportive of the selected side and the players they play with. There's nothing to take from that sort of talk other than they value their own place in the side.

 

[Top_Cat]

As Vic said, his numbers are sorta irrelevant if your team-mates don't want you in the side and/or have doubts about your work ethic......

 

[Spark]

They're completely different bowlers in every sense....except for performance. Where they're pretty much the same - An awesome 'best bowler in the world' performance, a long stretch of mediocrity although with slight differences, MJ gets 1-2 wickets per innings in this time, Siddle gets 0-1. MJ makes up for getting more wickets by then putting in just a shocking performance which Siddle avoids, and then there's the awesome performance again.


Now why Siddle does this time and time again we have no idea 'cause there's nothing wrong with his action or anything.

Siddle seems to be suffering from eerily similar problems to Broad circa June. He needs to take a leaf out of his book (although I don't think he'll reap quite the same rewards as Broad did).

 

[adub]

As Vic said, his numbers are sorta irrelevant if your team-mates don't want you in the side and/or have doubts about your work ethic......

and as I said that's crap. Who says they don't want him in the side? Do you see him celebrating his ODI wickets like Pat Malone? Of course not. The only evidence for some sort of contention that he isn't wanted is that no one currently in the side is coming out in public and saying 'Hey Johnson and Siddle are really ****, please drop them and select Dougeh!"

Yeah that's compelling evidence.

Numbers don't matter? Funny stuff. Of course guys want to play with the guys with the bad numbers. They make it so much less likely to win tests. Oh wait...

 

[SamSawnoff]

Uhhh he's not very popular in this forum with people that follow first class cricket. I brought him up too once and it turned into Tim Paine bashing. He doesn't have a very good FC record from what it seems like. I think people here would rather have Matthew Wade.

Then again Marsh was getting about the same type of treatment....

Marsh might get the same treatment soon enough. It's very early to say whether he'll wind up an established player. I can't see him getting the same leeway as Hughes if he gets a run of outs.

Paine can't be in the one day set-up, not if they plan on opening with wickies. He's a nice batsman to watch but he doesn't understand how to play that format and he's had a fair few goes so far.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie's face doesn't fit with the Aussies. In the ODI series in England before the drawn series against Pakistan, he said in an interview that Shaun Tait had been a breath of fresh air in the Aussie squad. You can draw from that what you will, but Shaun Tait isn't exactly the most serious cricketer in the world.

I'd rather Dougie than Johnson for SA, he's got more consistent ability to do something with the ball and make the batsmen think.

It's such a bore with Johnson, you are always waiting for lightning to strike with him. I think he's been worked out at test level unless it's one of his lightning strike days as he just doesn't really seem that smart a bowler.