***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[stephen]

Before Copeland was picked people would be saying that he could never run through test sides because he's too slow. Truth be told he never did run through Sri Lanka but instead had quite a number of edges run through the slips for four. Which means that the real difference between first class and test matches is that in tests, they nick 'em harder.

 

[uvelocity]

Which means that the real difference between first class and test matches is that in tests,

the slip fielders suck

 

[Burgey]

Tim Bresnan's Test carrer stats are just as good as that.

Tim Bresnan has played a handful of tests though.

Be like saying Lyon's career average is better than Warne's after the first innings of the first test against SL.

 

[Burgey]

you think South African batsmen will have trouble facing Copeland given that they face Morkel and Steyn in the nets all the time?

Spurious reasoning mate. Different players have different weaknesses. Andrew McDonald did fine aginst SL when he played against them, as an example.

You pick your best bowlers. Siddle has had a lot of chances to be consistent, and he hasn't done so. It's not he can't bowl well, it's that he doesn't do it often enough (like Johnson).

Copeland played his opening series in fairly unresponsive conditions (first test aside) and not only bowled relatively well, he kept things tight, which is important too. He derserves to keep his place imho.

If Siddle, or even better Dougeh, was to come in for anyone, it ought to be Johnson, who has frankly bowled like a busted arse, Perth aside, for bloody ages. Again, it isn't that Johnson can't bowl - fmd, when he gets it right he's a force of nature.

It's just that he gets it right about once a year these days. Sad, but true. He's averaging mid-50s with the ball, I think, in his last half dozen tests or so.

 

[Burgey]

Australia will go ahead of South Africa in the rankings if they beat them 2-0, ftr.

Would that make us number three, and SA four, with India moving up to number two?

 

[Valer]

Spurious reasoning mate. Different players have different weaknesses. Andrew McDonald did fine aginst SL when he played against them, as an example.

You pick your best bowlers. Siddle has had a lot of chances to be consistent, and he hasn't done so. It's not he can't bowl well, it's that he doesn't do it often enough (like Johnson).

Copeland played his opening series in fairly unresponsive conditions (first test aside) and not only bowled relatively well, he kept things tight, which is important too. He derserves to keep his place imho.

If Siddle, or even better Dougeh, was to come in for anyone, it ought to be Johnson, who has frankly bowled like a busted arse, Perth aside, for bloody ages. Again, it isn't that Johnson can't bowl - fmd, when he gets it right he's a force of nature.

It's just that he gets it right about once a year these days. Sad, but true. He's averaging mid-50s with the ball, I think, in his last half dozen tests or so.

My problem for MJ vs Siddle, is the former is a much better bowler when on song. Hence if I was going to persist with one of them in the hope they would fire it would be MJ. I agree that Bollinger is better bet however if your attack is Harris/Copeland/[Johnson, Siddle, Hilf, Bollinger]/[SOK/Lyon/Hauritz]. It also avoids the Siddle+ Johnson combo if Copes/ Harris gets injured.

Would that make us number three, and SA four, with India moving up to number two?

Yes

Eng 125
Ind 117
Aus 112
SA 112

 

[centurymaker]

Spurious reasoning mate. Different players have different weaknesses. Andrew McDonald did fine aginst SL when he played against them, as an example.

You pick your best bowlers. Siddle has had a lot of chances to be consistent, and he hasn't done so. It's not he can't bowl well, it's that he doesn't do it often enough (like Johnson).

Copeland played his opening series in fairly unresponsive conditions (first test aside) and not only bowled relatively well, he kept things tight, which is important too. He derserves to keep his place imho.

If Siddle, or even better Dougeh, was to come in for anyone, it ought to be Johnson, who has frankly bowled like a busted arse, Perth aside, for bloody ages. Again, it isn't that Johnson can't bowl - fmd, when he gets it right he's a force of nature.

It's just that he gets it right about once a year these days. Sad, but true. He's averaging mid-50s with the ball, I think, in his last half dozen tests or so.

If this series were to be played against some other country, I wouldn't pick johnson tbh.

What's happened to Bollinger? Is he no longer fit enough for tests? He was superb back in 2010.

 

[centurymaker]

Would that make us number three, and SA four, with India moving up to number two?

Yeah presumably.

 

[Spark]

If this series were to be played against some other country, I wouldn't pick johnson tbh.

What's happened to Bollinger? Is he no longer fit enough for tests? He was superb back in 2010.

That's the rationale, but I don't fully buy it. Now now, anyway.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Tim Bresnan has played a handful of tests though.

Be like saying Lyon's career average is better than Warne's after the first innings of the first test against SL.

Bresnan is a class act though, others mentioned apart from Warne aren't.

Obviously Warne is a world beater.

 

[Burgey]

If this series were to be played against some other country, I wouldn't pick johnson tbh.

What's happened to Bollinger? Is he no longer fit enough for tests? He was superb back in 2010.

He had fitness issues last summer, played Adelaide and died in the arse while bowling, after coming back from a side strain suffered in the first test of the Indian tour. He fell out of favour after that.

 

[Burgey]

Bresnan is a class act though, others mentioned apart from Warne aren't.

Obviously Warne is a world beater.

Oh I think Bresnan is a very good bowler.

But then Johnson looked a million bucks in SA last time we toured there.

I actually think Johnson's best chance of performing decently over the medium term, is if he's operating in an attack with the likes of Harris and Copeland, who are very disciplined bowlers. Lets him run in and bowl, not worry about being "the leader", or getting caught between trying to bowl accurately and try and be something other than what he is - a fairly enigmatic performer.

Having said that he should go in favour of Dougeh, I should say I thought he bowled better than his figures suggested in SL just gone.

 

[popepouri]

sa are so so heavily dependent on the two quickies. An injury to either rules out any chance of them bowling out a decent opposition for an acceptable score. Australia have a more balanced attack in terms of pace at least + lyon/hauritz are bit more of a proven quantity than tahir though his subcontinental skills could play a role.

lmao

 

[vic_orthdox]

Ok but all of that list Dougeh has by far the best record

well perhaps not far, but he's clearly got the wood on Hilf and Siddle

Two things: Doug bullied Pakistan and West Indies, and you don't see the players or anyone in the hierarchy wanting him back. Cricket Australia obviously have to take some responsibility for what happened, but the longer that this goes on, the more that you have to start thinking that he didn't take the personal responsibility to get himself as right as he could be, and that his team-mates felt let down by that. He's never had the reputation for being the hardest worker.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It also makes me laugh that Brad Haddin kicked up a stink about being dropped from the T20 side at the beginning of this year, only to retire a few months later after getting a recall. A lot of ego about that, for a guy with not much of a T20 record to speak about.

 

[Howe_zat]

Random thought:

It strikes me as unfair that Tsotsobe is regarded as hopeless based on him being a very good ODI bowler that's played a handful of mediocre Tests; while Tahir is regarded as the answer to SA's spin problems based on him being a very good ODI bowler that's never played a Test.

 

[Prince EWS]

Random thought:

It strikes me as unfair that Tsotsobe is regarded as hopeless based on him being a very good ODI bowler that's played a handful of mediocre Tests; while Tahir is regarded as the answer to SA's spin problems based on him being a very good ODI bowler that's never played a Test.

It's aesthetics, really. Even when he was bowling well in ODIs, Tsotsobe never really looked like he'd be a penetrative Test bowler. I don't think it's really based on failing in Tests, as such.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Oh I think Bresnan is a very good bowler.

But then Johnson looked a million bucks in SA last time we toured there.

I actually think Johnson's best chance of performing decently over the medium term, is if he's operating in an attack with the likes of Harris and Copeland, who are very disciplined bowlers. Lets him run in and bowl, not worry about being "the leader", or getting caught between trying to bowl accurately and try and be something other than what he is - a fairly enigmatic performer.

Having said that he should go in favour of Dougeh, I should say I thought he bowled better than his figures suggested in SL just gone.

Agree with all of that, Johnson is a matchwinner and if Harris and Copeland play there should be less pressure on him. I think it has got to the stage though that he puts too much pressure on himself now and underperforms. maybe the happy hunting ground of SA will spark him into life again.

 

[SamSawnoff]

It also makes me laugh that Brad Haddin kicked up a stink about being dropped from the T20 side at the beginning of this year, only to retire a few months later after getting a recall. A lot of ego about that, for a guy with not much of a T20 record to speak about.

So glad he's gone from at least one format. He's the one who came out and said that his arm was so bad that he could hardly hold the bat during the World T20's last time. AFTER the tournament. He's a very unreliable person.

 

[DriveClub]

Time to blood in Tim Paine in all 3 formats, Haddin's time has long passed.