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**** Official **** Australia in South Africa 2020

Burgey

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I dunno, MMarsh averages 35 & throughout the 2010s Australia's number 5 position averaged 35 in ODI cricket, so he's right on the mark. I would have used Carey there as I think finding out whether Carey truly can be a 5/6 in ODI cricket should be the main priority right now, but I think Marsh is perfectly fine there.

(In fact, I probably would have used Short at 5 before MMarsh too, because you may as well give him a real shot if you're gonna play him)
Yeah but it’s a rubbish number to be happy with imho. If played at six or seven as a bloke bowling a full ten overs then fair enough but I don’t think he’s really up to that without omitting one of the three front line quicks, which would be a terribad move
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Really hope Cameron Green comes good so I never have to see mitch marsh's stupid face ever again.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It could be a worthwhile experiment to have Smith move to #5 in an ABdV kind of role. Oz have Finch, Warner, Khawaja, SMarsh, Labuschagne for the top 4 spots.

It could really get the best out of Smith and the team.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah, S Marsh isn't going to be around for the next world cup.

At the moment it's a choice between Stoinis and MMarsh and of the two MMarsh is the better cricketer.

The truth if the matter is that we just haven't devoted enough time to one day cricket domestically and we don't have the players. Symonds' and Bevans don't grow on trees.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah, S Marsh isn't going to be around for the next world cup.
Finch, Warner, Khawaja, Labu then as top 4

Smith batting below 4 is a terrible idea. Even batting 4 would be too low for him.
Think he has it in him to be a great number 5. Plus he will know exactly what he needs to do at that position and I think he will like that. Either he reconstructs the innings after a top order collapse or he gets to have fun getting them to a big total.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Smith has averaged 55.5 at 3 since his odi Debu. Anyone saying we should move him down the order needs to get some help. Give Smith as much time at the crease as u can, we tried this in the world cup with khawaja 3 Smith 4 in the world cup and it was a ****ing disaster.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Smith has averaged 55.5 at 3 since his odi Debu. Anyone saying we should move him down the order needs to get some help. Give Smith as much time at the crease as u can, we tried this in the world cup with khawaja 3 Smith 4 in the world cup and it was a ****ing disaster.
SMarsh and Labu also average 50 in the last 3 years with a better SR than Smith. Obviously Smith is better. Just thinking about the best utilization of resources given the choices available.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
SMarsh and Labu also average 50 in the last 3 years with a better SR than Smith. Obviously Smith is better. Just thinking about the best utilization of resources given the choices available.
Yes and Smith has played half of his odi cricket below 3 and averaged in the 30s, its not worth compromising a number 3 who averages 55 by 20 runs on average to bring in somoene who averages 50 at 3. As I said this exact process was tried in the world cup and Smith averaged 38 at 4, including the 85 he made in the semis at 3.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Smith has averaged 55.5 at 3 since his odi Debu. Anyone saying we should move him down the order needs to get some help. Give Smith as much time at the crease as u can, we tried this in the world cup with khawaja 3 Smith 4 in the world cup and it was a ****ing disaster.
Except it was when Khawaja got injured that we lost important matches.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Except it was when Khawaja got injured that we lost important matches.
How? We lost to India and South Africa in the knockout and both times khawaja was at 3, Smith Played a good knock In the semis ar 3, that loss was down to both warner and finch not performing and the middle order failing to accelerate in the death.
 

Spikey

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Yeah but it’s a rubbish number to be happy with imho. If played at six or seven as a bloke bowling a full ten overs then fair enough but I don’t think he’s really up to that without omitting one of the three front line quicks, which would be a terribad move
But it's an entirely reasonable number? across the world, the number 5 position averaged 33 during the 2010s. like, that mid 30's place is the starting point. Individually, guys like Morgan & Shakib are smack bang on 35 in that time. if he performs like he has previously in OD cricket, and due to injury and weird selection, it's been a long time since those performances, his average of 35 is perfectly fine for that position, participially given he'd bowling too. i don't think it's an issue at all.

However, this two batting all-rounder thing is ****ing stupid and that to me is an issue. i thought we were looking at changing that after the WC failure but here we are two series later, using two different all-rounders for the same structure. I think everyone is probably sick of me droning on about this, but we continue to overvalue batting depth and undervalue bowling depth imo. the real problem last night was that Marsh/Short went for 0/70 from 10 overs. If Carey is going to bat in the top 6 and perform like he did at the WC (which I'm sceptical he will but he'll live off that for at least a year or so), we don't need to play two batting all-rounders. you can just play a bowling all-rounder ala Forkers Faulkner at 7 (who despite popular belief, never dropped in performance level with the ball) pick a batsman at 5 and have a couple of overs ready to use from the batsmen.
 
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harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes and Smith has played half of his odi cricket below 3 and averaged in the 30s
Oh if you think that he would average 30 odd at #5, then of course you should be against it. I don't think that will happen though.
 

Spikey

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Yes and Smith has played half of his odi cricket below 3 and averaged in the 30s, its not worth compromising a number 3 who averages 55 by 20 runs on average to bring in somoene who averages 50 at 3. As I said this exact process was tried in the world cup and Smith averaged 38 at 4, including the 85 he made in the semis at 3.
half of that half is from when he was a baby and sucked batting in the lower order. there's no reason to assume he would suck today, however, it'd a silly thing to try
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Oh if you think that he would average 30 odd at #5, then of course you should be against it. I don't think that will happen though.
I dont think he would average 30, more sayibg that compromising Smith down the order when he averages 55 at 3 just isint worth it, no matter who takes the 3 spot, plus as spikey pointed out marsh's average if 35 is bog standard for an odi #5, nothing wrong with it.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm actually open to Smith dropping down the order if all the other good batsmen we have are top order batsmen. Smith can play those 30(15) innings or he can quell a collapse, which is exactly the thing you want out of a number 5. I don't think M Marsh can do that.

Right now Australia's best top 6 probably looks like:

Warner
Finch
Khawaja
S Marsh
Smith
Carey+

The larger problem is that our two best performing ODI batsmen who aren't in this XI are both going to be too old at the next world cup. S Marsh is already borderline too old and Khawaja will probably be there in 3 years time. Hopefully someone like Ben McDermott can up their game and become a very good ODI cricketer in that time but until then we have to work with what we have got.

Smith at 5 would be bad for his personal statistics (probably) but given his flexibility and capabilities he probably is the best number 5 in the country. And if we have a glut of number 3s who are good (but not as good as Smith necessarily) then dropping Smith down the order could be the best thing for the team and its chances of winning the next world cup.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
This is what I'm saying, weve tried dropping Smith down the order and it doesn't work, he's averaged 35 at 4 and 15 at 5 (tbf small sample size). Smiths best position is 3 by far and away is 3, and his best partner at 4 at the moment is labuschagne imo, Australia's issue is the middle order finishing when the openers don't perform, popping smith down the order wont fix that.
 

slippy888

International Captain
This is what I'm saying, weve tried dropping Smith down the order and it doesn't work, he's averaged 35 at 4 and 15 at 5 (tbf small sample size). Smiths best position is 3 by far and away is 3, and his best partner at 4 at the moment is labuschagne imo, Australia's issue is the middle order finishing when the openers don't perform, popping smith down the order wont fix that.
I dont think there is a lack of talent in Australia domestic cricket it just a selection problem
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Moving Smith down would be silly, unless you guys really think he can do a finisher's role. Of the options available though, playing both Smith and Marnus in the same XI may not always be feasible. Is there no one better than Marnus for the #4 slot? I think if Maxi comes back, he can bat 6 and maybe Carey can bat 5. So if you can sort out your #4, that is basically putting the jigsaw together.
 

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