*Official* Australia in New Zealand

[Athlai]

Southee is a yard faster than when he started but swings it less.

Good effort Clake.

 

[morgieb]

Bond is perfectly understandable. He's got 2 years tops of cricket left in him, and he wants to make the most of it. Three of the last 4 test series that he's played in (Pak in 09, SA in 07 and WI in 06), have led to injuries that have meant he's spent long periods on the sidelines. Why would he want to risk that before a major money spinner like the IPL, when he has so little earning time left?

O'Brien is a bit more difficult to justify. The only thing I can think of is that his wife might've given him an ultimatum, and he sadly came down on her side.

Yeah, this sounds understandable.

Anyway, awesome to see Clarke get a ton. Take that dickheads!

 

[Bahnz]

What do you mean "troll"? what i said was actually facts, just because you might not agree with it doesn't mean i'm "trolling", honestly that line is getting extremely tedious now and is way passed it's sell by date .

It's perfectly fine to be an overly enthusiastic supporter of your own team. No problems there. When you start repeatedly denigrating another team, and trumpeting how much better your side is, that's when you move into troll territory no matter how good-natured your posts are.

It comes as particularly annoying and hypocritical given that we're one day into the series. Given that the windies showed all the spine of an overawed jelly-fish during the first test of their glorious 2-0 defeat to Australia last year, you think you'd wait a bit longer before sneering about how little a chance we have of emerging with any credit.

Also if you want to talk about facts, the Windies didn't get within 20 runs of Australia at Perth. Just sayin'.

 

[Spark]

Superb from Clarke to get 100 from what I've heard, apparently he started off really, really, really slowly... and then managed 100 off 140? Not a bad effort. Haven't seen it yet but once the highlights come up will be very keenly watching.

 

[Bahnz]

And?

Tim Southee hasn't improved since coming into international cricket, what's that got to do with wanting Williamson in the team? Southee ever since coming into domestic cricket has been one of the better bowlers going around, so he deserved his shot. But even if he struggled to begin with you'd still like to see development in his game, something I don't think has happened.

His pace hasn't really increased all that much (in test match cricket anyway as he always seems to be able to bowl 3/4 overs in one day cricket at 138+) He's lost his ability to swing it both ways, heck he's even lost his consistant outswinger with the new ball.

I really think Daniel Vettori's captaincy is to blame in some respects, he really gives Tim Southee a very short leash and if he goes for a few four's early on he's taken off right away.

My basic point is that the "good enough=old enough" claim is buuuuuuuuuuuull****. Young players, despite being technically good enough, can get easily taken apart at intl level due to a mix of a lack of experience and confidence, which can have long term effects on their development (as has happened to Tim Southee). If we push Kane Williamson into the team, the same could easily happen to him. Giving him a couple of years to mature in domestic and A-tour cricket, before gradually moving him into ODI and finally test cricket, reduces the risk of this happening.

Basically I'm saying it's somewhat weird that you can recognise that pushing Southee into the mix too early has had a detrimental affect on his game, and yet still so strongly push for Williamson's inclusion at a similar age.

As for your comments on Southee.

1) Southee was never going to be a fast bowler. He's a geniune quick-medium swing bowler. No matter how much he works out, and how hard he tries, he's never going to be Dale Steyn.

2) He never could swing it both ways. He had an outswing and an off cutter.

3) He still swings the ball, it's just that he's all over the place with his line and length.

4) I agree. Vettori was really harsh on him today, taking him off after two overs and then not even giving him the new ball (and replacing him with Tuffey no less). Vettori needs to show more trust in him. If he continues to fail, then let him be dropped for a couple of years and hopefully he'll come back stronger. But keeping him in the side, bowling him for 4 over spells and then shaking his head and takin him off after he goes at 5 an over is poor captaincy.

 

[Streetwise]

Superb from Clarke to get 100 from what I've heard, apparently he started off really, really, really slowly... and then managed 100 off 140? Not a bad effort. Haven't seen it yet but once the highlights come up will be very keenly watching.

50 after 102 balls, 100 off 141 balls.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's perfectly fine to be an overly enthusiastic supporter of your own team. No problems there. When you start repeatedly denigrating another team, and trumpeting how much better your side is, that's when you move into troll territory no matter how good-natured your posts are.

It comes as particularly annoying and hypocritical given that we're one day into the series. Given that the windies showed all the spine of an overawed jelly-fish during the first test of their glorious 2-0 defeat to Australia last year, you you'd wait a bit longer before sneering about how little a chance we have of emerging with any credit.

Also if you want to talk about facts, the Windies didn't get within 20 runs of Australia at Perth. Just sayin'.

Erm someone said your lot "need an inspired spell of bowling" and i merely mentioned what we did in our recent tests against Australia, how is that "denigrating another side"? and as for your "jelly fish" line, that's just as frivolous as your "troll" comment to be honest cause at the end of the day we still pushed the Aussies hard in the last two tests, we showed brilliant courage to come back from the dead, you talk about "credit" but clearly you're not prepard to give out any yourself.

 

[Prince EWS]

Guys, keep it to cricket. Please stop the personal attacks and troll-related discussion; it's not what we're all here for.

 

[Bahnz]

Erm someone said your lot "need an inspired spell of bowling" and i merely mentioned what we did in our recent tests against Australia, how is that "denigrating another side"? and as for your "jelly fish" line, that's just as frivolous as your "troll" comment to be honest as anyone who saw that series would know that we pushed the Aussies hard in the last two tests, you talk about "credit" but clearly you're not prepard to give any yourself.

No, you strongly implied that New Zealand couldn't produce a spell of strong bowling, and then followed it up by saying they hadn't a prayer of even a face-saving draw in the current series. And I'm not saying the west indies don't deserve credit for playing well in patches in the final two tests of the series, I'm saying to dismiss New Zealand's chances of playing any good cricket after 1 bad session is at best forgetful, given how shockingly bad the windies were in the first test of their series against Australia.

 

[Spark]

50 after 102 balls, 100 off 141 balls.

Very nice IMO.

In fact, even more suprising: (off cricinfo)

End of over 70 (1 run) Australia 197/4
MJ Clarke 27* (83b 1x4)

Quite an acceleration.

No, you strongly implied that New Zealand couldn't produce a spell of strong bowling, and then followed it up by saying they hadn't a prayer of even a face-saving draw in the current series. And I'm not saying the west indies don't deserve credit for playing well in patches in the final two tests of the series, I'm saying to dismiss New Zealand's chances of playing any good cricket after 1 bad session is at best forgetful, given how shockingly bad the windies were in the first test of their series against Australia.

In my (short) experience writing off NZ is never a good idea.

 

[Hurricane]

I think he is trying to improve (Southee). He was working in the off season on finding his swing again.

He has come a long way as a one day bowler in my opinion. Maybe tomorrow will be his day.

The commentators are also saying he has changed his action in the search for more pace. So I wonder if that has been to his detriment.

But like I said tomorrow is another day.

 

[Bahnz]

I think he is trying to improve (Southee). He was working in the off season on finding his swing again.

He has come a long way as a one day bowler in my opinion. Maybe tomorrow will be his day.

The commentators are also saying he has changed his action in the search for more pace. So I wonder if that has been to his detriment.

But like I said tomorrow is another day.

Not too sure about that. He's certainly gotten better at hitting the block hole, but he's seemed to have abandoned any effort to use his swing when the ball is new, a distinctly odd tactic given that's what he's best at.

 

[WindieWeathers]

No, you strongly implied that New Zealand couldn't produce a spell of strong bowling, and then followed it up by saying they hadn't a prayer of even a face-saving draw in the current series. And I'm not saying the west indies don't deserve credit for playing well in patches in the final two tests of the series, I'm saying to dismiss New Zealand's chances of playing any good cricket after 1 bad session is at best forgetful, given how shockingly bad the windies were in the first test of their series against Australia.

I merely said "i wouldn't bet on it", it was in jest mainly even though i stand by that comment, i only defended WI's efforts in the tests after someone made a disparaging comment about it, if your lot manage to pull off some results then fair play i'll say it how it is, i just don't agree with the "troll" line being thrown around over minor issues like this.


P.S. Pardon me mods i'm just explaining my side of story.

 

[Howsie]

I think he is trying to improve (Southee). He was working in the off season on finding his swing again.

He has come a long way as a one day bowler in my opinion. Maybe tomorrow will be his day.

The commentators are also saying he has changed his action in the search for more pace. So I wonder if that has been to his detriment.

But like I said tomorrow is another day.

I remember Mark Richardson saying at the start of last summer (when the West Indies toured) that on the tour of England the New Zealand coaching group tried to improve his pace but in doing that he lost his ability to swing the ball. Apparently he got up into the 140's but his wrist position changed that much that he lost his natural shape so they just canned it.

So I'd find it rather strange that he'd just go ahead and change it anyway a year later. That doesn't really make much sense tbh, maybe in a change in coaches perhaps?

 

[Hurricane]

@Bahnz

I remember Southee playing a game a year or so ago where he was getting massive swing and it was going for wides. So he aimed the ball at leg stump and then got clipped through the leg side. Maybe he is holding it across the seam to help with accuracy.

It wasn't that long ago that India smacked him for 100 runs or so in a game. So in saying he has come a long way I am not saying he is awesome or anything. Just that he is no longer poor.
He was more of a threat in the ODI games than Tuffey appeared to be (from the games I saw).

 

[Prince EWS]

You can't just ignore our instruction because you want to explain your side of the story. We don't want to see either side of the story in this thread - it's not what it's for. Continue the cricket side of the discussion if you like but if you keep the character discussion up you'll be having a holiday.

 

[Bahnz]

@Bahnz

I remember Southee playing a game a year or so ago where he was getting massive swing and it was going for wides. So he aimed the ball at leg stump and then got clipped through the leg side. Maybe he is holding it across the seam to help with accuracy.

It wasn't that long ago that India smacked him for 100 runs or so in a game. So in saying he has come a long way I am not saying he is awesome or anything. Just that he is no longer poor.
He was more of a threat in the ODI games than Tuffey appeared to be (from the games I saw).

To be honest, I think an average of 42 at an economy rate 6.1 is pretty poor. His series stats would've been nightmarish if he hadn't finally bowled well in the last game. As for being more of a threat than Tuffey, well it wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Hurricane]

BTW going to the game on Sunday. Will probably get to see New Zealand bat. Don't really want to see Mcintosh blocking it out and doing his thing. But looking forward to seeing Watling and company.

Good times.

 

[Howsie]

It annoyed the heck out of me when the commentators were going gaga over Tuffey's bowling today and going on about how this will be is role in the future.

 

[Bahnz]

It annoyed the heck out of me when the commentators were going gaga over Tuffey's bowling today and going on about how this will be is role in the future.

I know. I don't think I saw a single ball all day that actually troubled the batsman. At least Southee occasionally beat the outside edge or induced a false shot. On a different day he might've picked up a couple of wickets. Tuffey, for all his accuracy, simply never looked like making a breakthrough. And given that we apparently aren't allowed to produce greentops in New Zealand anymore, he's gonna need to show something different if he's to be a long term success.