***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[luckyeddie]

People keep on saying that the Aussies are bound to improve but I'm not so sure myself.

The class of player is obviously there but if England's bowlers keep on top of the batsmen as they have thus far then I'm not sure they will get into form. I'd like to think that the Aussies aren't playing well because England are but not many people seem to think the same if I've read correctly.

Not quite, Herr Global Moderatorsturmischbineinenglanderfuhrer PY.

There are actually quite a few Aussies on this board willing to concede that the Poms are perhaps a little better than they thought - or more like, a little better than certain hacks and ex-professional cricketers made out (Dennis Lillee, wonderful bowler that he was, still retains a remarkably blinkered view of the world, bless his moustache).

For the rest (I don't think it's a majority - but one or two are notably vociferous), the only reason for them they're not already 3-0 ahead at this stage is either a global umpiring conspiracy or some inexplicable and so-far almost total loss of form that will suddenly sort itself out next time.

 

[GotSpin]

Anybody know the crowd figures for the thid test?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I'd say personally I've definately been surprised by Flintoff (with the ball), Simon Jones and Pietersen. I knew before this series that Flintoff was a good bowler, but frankly he's bowled spells this series which would make Wasim Akram jealous. Jones has surprised me not with his reverse as such, but with his early and how consistently he has been able to get it, and with his accuracy when using it (at least after the first test, where he was inaccurate). Pietersen I thought would struggle a bit if the Australians planned for him well, and I thought Warne would get on top of him, but largely he's been good so far.

Everyone else has basically done what I thought they were capable of, aside from Harmison who's been disappointing. I've not been surprised by the quality of England (who I knew to be a good side anyway) so much as I've been disappointing by Australia, particularly Gillespie, and Martyn, Katich and Gilchrist who have done nothing much so far and who I expected plenty from. This isn't to take anything away from England, as the reason they have struggled has largely been the bowling, but their ability to counter that good bowling so far has been disappointing... although I fully expect Martyn at the least and probably the other two as well to come good before the series is done.

I will say, though, that while I don't think the only reason for England being on top is Australia's poor form, I do think that Australia have a lot of room to improve, while I can't really see England getting that much better. I guess we'll see.

 

[simmy]

Fair call, I still think Australia would be thrashed without Warney...

Absolutely... without his 90 in the first innings, it would have been over very early on Monday.

Warne for MOM. Then Ponting, Vaughan and Jones.

 

[luckyeddie]

Anybody know the crowd figures for the thid test?

115000 - the second-highest ever for an Old Trafford test. Capacities are much-reduced from the old 'bench seat' days, of course - it's worth noting that 20,000 were turned away yesterday - a staggering number.

 

[simmy]

I'd say personally I've definately been surprised by Flintoff (with the ball), Simon Jones and Pietersen. I knew before this series that Flintoff was a good bowler, but frankly he's bowled spells this series which would make Wasim Akram jealous. Jones has surprised me not with his reverse as such, but with his early and how consistently he has been able to get it, and with his accuracy when using it (at least after the first test, where he was inaccurate). Pietersen I thought would struggle a bit if the Australians planned for him well, and I thought Warne would get on top of him, but largely he's been good so far.

Everyone else has basically done what I thought they were capable of, aside from Harmison who's been disappointing. I've not been surprised by the quality of England (who I knew to be a good side anyway) so much as I've been disappointing by Australia, particularly Gillespie, and Martyn, Katich and Gilchrist who have done nothing much so far and who I expected plenty from. This isn't to take anything away from England, as the reason they have struggled has largely been the bowling, but their ability to counter that good bowling so far has been disappointing... although I fully expect Martyn at the least and probably the other two as well to come good before the series is done.

I will say, though, that while I don't think the only reason for England being on top is Australia's poor form, I do think that Australia have a lot of room to improve, while I can't really see England getting that much better. I guess we'll see.

If all this is true... then this series is about to hot up even more!

Shame there were so many bloody one-dayers that noone gives two hoots about and not 6 test matches starting in early July.

Damn ICC

 

[simmy]

115000 - the second-highest ever for an Old Trafford test. Capacities are much-reduced from the old 'bench seat' days, of course - it's worth noting that 20,000 were turned away yesterday - a staggering number.

TV audience may have been bigger than the last test as well.

Cricket is all over back and front pages. Fantastic.

 

[GotSpin]

115000 - the second-highest ever for an Old Trafford test. Capacities are much-reduced from the old 'bench seat' days, of course - it's worth noting that 20,000 were turned away yesterday - a staggering number.

Ok thanks. Great numbers and looked like a great atmosphere and great for the game

 

[luckyeddie]

I will say, though, that while I don't think the only reason for England being on top is Australia's poor form, I do think that Australia have a lot of room to improve, while I can't really see England getting that much better. I guess we'll see.

I guess we will. It's interesting how you cannot see England getting 'that much better', but not surprising*.

After all, Strauss had been 'worked out', Bell was sub-standard and Trescothick was destined to be shown to be totally out of his class.

I could just as easily say that England haven't bowled well collectively as a unit yet, but have still by and large been far too good for Australia's exulted upper order. After all, Hoggard and Harmison have only gone well in fits and starts and if the bowlers really play as they can, the tests at Trent Bridge and The Oval are as good as in the bag already.

I could say that, but I'll leave that to others.

*Edit:

That's not aimed at you personally.

It's just that all summer long, this England side were going to be exposed - one by one the critics lined up to write them off. Then came Lord's and a superb first morning for the home side before the wheels came off. The same old story - a collapse, the old frailties and the phrase on everyone's lips was 'here we go again' or 'false dawn'.

Then Edgbaston - and despite a home victory, the manner in which Australia fought tooth and nail to nearly achieve the impossible was going to buoy them up for Old Trafford, and England, despite victory, would be despondent. What happened next? A complete and utter thrashing in all but result.

I'll tell you how England will feel - they'll be ****-a-hoop and raring to go at Trent Bridge because twice in succession they have demonstrated that not only can they compete with Australia, they can come out on top. Australia have 10 days in which they can mull over the fact that England just aren't scared of them any more.

 

[simmy]

Once again, don't waste your time - he'll be a ghost here next time Australia do well, just like the Lords Test.

I was on holiday after the Lords test!

I will be the first to congratulate an Aussie win if they play well. At Lords we were thrashed and looked ordinary at times, but I honestly feel that England look the better side since then.

Time will tell.... these days to regroup obv favour Aus, Clarke and McGrath especially.

But it also gives Eng time to reflect on a series they should be leading. Harmison needs to fired up and Hoggard dropped...

Kaspa in for Gillespie or will it be Tait?

 

[simmy]

I guess we will. It's interesting how you cannot see England getting 'that much better', but not surprising.

After all, Strauss had been 'worked out', Bell was sub-standard and Trescothick was destined to be shown to be totally out of his class.

I could just as easily say that England haven't bowled well collectively as a unit yet, but have still by and large been far too good for Australia's exulted upper order. After all, Hoggard and Harmison have only gone well in fits and starts and if the bowlers really play as they can, the tests at Trent Bridge and The Oval are as good as in the bag already.

I could say that, but I'll leave that to others.

So true.

 

[King_Ponting]

115000 - the second-highest ever for an Old Trafford test. Capacities are much-reduced from the old 'bench seat' days, of course - it's worth noting that 20,000 were turned away yesterday - a staggering number.

115 000 ey? lookd more like 19000 odd to me

 

[GotSpin]

115 000 ey? lookd more like 19000 odd to me

Edited

 

[luckyeddie]

115 000 ey? lookd more like 19000 odd to me

Don't be silly.

The figure I quoted was that for all 5 days

 

[King_Ponting]

Don't be silly.

The figure I quoted was that for all 5 days

Sorry my mistake. although having said that 115 000 in 5 days isnt that many.. Ground capactity might need to be increased, one thinks

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I'll tell you how England will feel - they'll be ****-a-hoop and raring to go at Trent Bridge because twice in succession they have demonstrated that not only can they compete with Australia, they can come out on top. Australia have 10 days in which they can mull over the fact that England just aren't scared of them any more.

I'd imagine England would be full of confidence, yes. But, it's still a psychological hit to dominate a test like that and not win it... or more importantly, dominate a test like that and still be on level pegging in the series. Australia will feel like they got out of jail, and England will feel like they let one slip, that's just natural. Of course, I don't really think how they feel about the OT result will have a huge bearing on how things go at Trent Bridge, but there's no question in my mind that Australia have more to gain from the end result and the time off than England do, because England have played bloody well and Australia really haven't. England have to come out in the fourth test and maintain the same intensity they've shown in the last two, while Australia will be looking to regroup, make some selection changes and come back a completely different team.

By the way, I'm not trying to have a dig at England or suggest they haven't been by far the better team for the last two tests, because they have. And if I'm wrong about England and they come out and play even better at TB, I'm happy to face up to that. My point is simply that, as an Australian fan, I'm not feeling like Australia are beaten in this series at all yet, because it's even on the scoreboard and Australia are capable of playing better than they have, in my opinion.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Kaspa in for Gillespie or will it be Tait?

Kasper. I'd be thrilled to see Tait play, but he won't. Kasprowicz was pretty good at Edgbaston really, and so far in the series he has 3 wickets in 18 overs or something, so really hasn't been used. I'm also not sure how good Tait would really be with the old ball.

 

[howardj]

England are also capable of playing much better - just look at their gun players. I mean, Harmison only took a handful of wickets in the last two Tests, while Pietersen and Flintoff barely scored a run at Old Trafford.

 

[Nate]

Nothing I can say, that hasn`t been said. Brilliant.

Buuut... I can`t help thinking - in the final over, where McGrath got a single, would it have been worth picking the ball up and rolling it over the boundary to keep McGrath on strike? Just a thought.

Ponting you legend. And that catch off Warne! CRIKEY!

 

[Scaly piscine]

For all those that have criticised KP, Jones and Giles in this test, I'll have you know that UK's Daily Mirror rated their performances 6/10, 8/10 and 8/10 respectively.

Considering that KP dropped 2 catches, generally ran around like an idiot and scored 21 runs in 2 innings, it makes you wonder what you have to do to be considered a failure on their criteria

Ugh, the tabloids generally know sod all about cricket and those marks out of ten things are always useless. Giles was easily the worst of the bowlers, it wasn't Harmison or Hoggard's sort of pitch but they still got a couple of wickets, Giles bowled 57 overs and took 3 wickets on a pitch that was helping him a lot and got a duck when he batted - that's about as bad as a performance you can get on a pitch that's helping.