***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Richard]

I mean geez, he smacked the spinners to all parts in the first Test of both series' he's played in India.

The first of which owed one hell of a lot to dropped catches off consecutive deliveries.

 

[Richard]

No no, you don't understand. A bowler doesn't care about playing opportunities or representing their country or chances to improve or anything. The only thing they care about is their stats, and because Macgill has been so terrible since he hit his wall of mediocrity in 2001 he would not have wanted to be picking knowing his shocking performance would ruin his stats, and as such he would be relieved by his sporadic appearances for Australia, knowing that he would finish his career with a lower average than he deserved. Richard knows this.

So... go on then. How many games has MacGill had a positive influence on since 2001? (Because let's face it - that's the only thing more important than overall figures)
Bridgetown 2003 and SCG 2004\05... and that's it.
Anyone in their right mind would prefer not reprisent their country if they know they're going to humiliate themselves and their country in doing so. So don't try bringing that one into it.
When did I say MacGill would have preferred not to be picked?

 

[Richard]

Ponting will be the highest ICC ranked batsman playing in the ashes series followed by Martyn, Gilchrist, Strauss, Langer, Hayden & Trescothic.

Which simply shows the idiocy of the idea of basing much on those rankings because Strauss, Vaughan and Thorpe are all clearly better all-round batsmen than Gilchrist, Langer and Hayden.

 

[Richard]

Yeah but that just proves TC point, Waugh and Lehmann both got focused to retire at 35 and Thorpe would be the same.

Presuming you mean forced rather than focused - the only reason they retired was because they were not performing any more. And in Stephen's case even from his 2nd series after his 36th birthday onwards he still averaged 37.76 (against Test-class opposition) - he was clearly not quite the batsman of his magnificent pre-2001\02 but he was still just about good enough to keep his spot and did so. He retired on his own terms, not because he was forced to do so.

 

[Richard]

Yes but whilst he had his personal problems, it would have been easy for the English selectors to not pick him again. Best batsman or not, I would imagine that had he been an Aussie, he wouldn't be picked to play at 35.

So you reckon Australia would drop Martyn in a few years time even if he's still averaging 50?

 

[Richard]

Yes, it had reduced the top order to 130-7, but in the grand scheme of things, there's only 2 decent players in that line-up, and 1 is still a bit raw.

Khan is far more than "still a bit raw" - if he ever makes a county-standard bowler I'll eat my computer.

 

[Richard]

saqlain isnt quality on a non turner. nor is he particularly brilliant on a turner these days.

And you know that because the last time he bowled on a turner was so recent, wasn't it?
He's played 1 Test in the last 3 years, that on a pitch that could fairly be called as flat as possible.
What the pitch at Bulawayo was like when he took 10-155 I haven't a clue, it may just be that Zimbabwe were useless against the slow delivery.
By all reports both the pitches at Sharjah were very flat and the heat unfit for playing cricket; so the last 4 turning pitches he's played on have produced good figures. Just they were 3 years before his next Test is likely to be.
Personally I'm going to wait until the next time I see him before writing him off.

 

[Richard]

It would hardly have been embarrassing had the Aussies lost that series. India played really well and capitalised on Australia missing Warne and McGrath. You don't mind being beaten by a better side.

The point is before the series how many people seriously thought India would be close to the better side?
You just have to look at the amits comments to see that Australia would have been embarrased to lose that series.

 

[Richard]

I would have thought Strauss would be considered the form player right now.

I'd say they're both in woeful nick, myself.

 

[Richard]

Should have.

Clearly the "in all cases where not obvious, common-sense applies" Law has not been run by you, Tim?

 

[Richard]

Gotta be honest and say that I watched all 5 days of that match (the only Test I was able to that summer!) and for the first three days, it was certainly the road you speak of. I remember thinking after day 3 that the match would barely reach a 3rd innings at that rate.

However, day 4 it started to grip ever so slightly (with Kumble's great bowling) and on day 5 from what I remember, it was turning a bit and displayed some elements of uneven bounce. It still didn't appear as if it was terribly difficult to bat on but I distinctly remember enough turn and uneven bounce to at least keep the spinners interested. It was no raging turner and certainly well below what one would expect from Sydney, though.

As for the rest of the decks, I remember them like this;

'Gabba: road, for one rainy day minefield and then a road again.
Melbourne: Road.
Adelaide: ROAD!!!

I remember a certain amount of uneven bounce at The MCG.

 

[marc71178]

Khan is far more than "still a bit raw" - if he ever makes a county-standard bowler I'll eat my computer.

Since when was Khan batting for Hampshire then?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Which simply shows the idiocy of the idea of basing much on those rankings because Strauss, Vaughan and Thorpe are all clearly better all-round batsmen than Gilchrist, Langer and Hayden.

You MUST be joking.

 

[aussie]

Martyn and Katich have both improved from being very poor players of spin. But for that improvement in both of them I'm near certain they'd have lost both series.

i know martyn used to be poor againts spin early in his carrer but since when Katich has been poor againts spin?

 

[aussie]

The first of which owed one hell of a lot to dropped catches off consecutive deliveries.

not really the only real drop catch was when he was dropped by some joker by the name of Sanghvi at cover off the bowling off Tendulkar when i think he was already passed a hunderd but i am not so sure , while the other one was a difficult running catch that Bandani didn't even get a hand on.

so i dont know where all these drop catches you are talking about came from

 

[aussie]

So... go on then. How many games has MacGill had a positive influence on since 2001? (Because let's face it - that's the only thing more important than overall figures)
Bridgetown 2003 and SCG 2003\04... and that's it.
Anyone in their right mind would prefer not reprisent their country if they know they're going to humiliate themselves and their country in doing so. So don't try bringing that one into it.
When did I say MacGill would have preferred not to be picked?

SCG 2002 againts SA comes to mind, n u may be mistaken about SCG 2003/04 i think u mean SCG 2004/05

 

[aussie]

Which simply shows the idiocy of the idea of basing much on those rankings because Strauss, Vaughan and Thorpe are all clearly better all-round batsmen than Gilchrist, Langer and Hayden.

please tell me that you are joking

 

[aussie]

And you know that because the last time he bowled on a turner was so recent, wasn't it?
He's played 1 Test in the last 3 years, that on a pitch that could fairly be called as flat as possible.
What the pitch at Bulawayo was like when he took 10-155 I haven't a clue, it may just be that Zimbabwe were useless against the slow delivery.
By all reports both the pitches at Sharjah were very flat and the heat unfit for playing cricket; so the last 4 turning pitches he's played on have produced good figures. Just they were 3 years before his next Test is likely to be.
Personally I'm going to wait until the next time I see him before writing him off.

what about multan 2004, didn't saqlain play thier has well?

 

[age_master]

please tell me that you are joking

well its the funniest thing ive heard all day

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Clearly the "in all cases where not obvious, common-sense applies" Law has not been run by you, Tim?

Regardless, I got one over TEC. Envy me, Dickinson.