***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Blaze]

I said the taff was a compulsive heaver...

And that concludes the most pathetic disgraceful display of batting (bar one player) I've seen in a long time.

No one cares what you say.. you are depressing

 

[BoyBrumby]

I expect, and hope, to see the same 11 for the 2nd and 3rd -- anything else would make a mockery of the selction policy of the last few years.

As for Thorpe: if, after three tests, we've lost the series, there would never be any justification for recalling him anyway, while if after three tests we're still in with a chance, why would we change the line-up?

So his decision was right in that regard -- no place now, no place ever again given he'd already made clear that he was retiring after this summer.

The only issue is in the event of injury. If one of the current middle-order was forced out by injury --and people like Flint-o have a history here -- it would have been good to have Thorpe as a stand-by. That's the only scenario where the toys/pram criticism comes into play, and even then it would be more positive to choose a replacement looking forward not back.

I think the timing of his announcement was terrible, but the decision itself was basically correct.

The timing was terrible; however noble Thorpey's intentions were (or were not) his announcement being made after our crash-and-burn of a first innings made his decision look like petulance. As he is still playing first-class cricket could he have not left the decision to the selectors? He was obviously in their thinking until the NSW gig became public knowledge or his selection against Bangladesh would be nonsensical. What more could they have expected to learn from a man of 98-tests worth of experience?

I guess the obvious question we, as cricket fans & hypothetical selectors, have to ask is who was more likely to score runs against The Aussies: Bell or Thorpe? Age & iffy back notwithstanding I'd say Thorpe. I think Bell's failures emphasise my point. Two more failures in the 2nd test & a live Ashes still to play for & the case for Thorpe would've been overpowering.

Bell is obviously the coming man, but I think when a team is playing the team who are unquestionably the world leaders a case can be made for picking the best 11 available. I’d say England’s best 11 still includes a certain dogged, combative, doughty (pick your own favourite adjective!) left-hander.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

No rather by someone who's been extremely jealous of England for having Flintoff in their side for a long while.

Jealous? I don't think Trescothick is a particularly good player, that doesn't mean I'm jealous of England having him. I disagree with zinzan about Flintoff, but I don't think that means he's jealous. There are a lot of reasonable criticisms that can be made of Flintoff, such as that he is a poor player of spin, he has yet to achieve consistent performance with the bat etc.

 

[tooextracool]

And the rain that effectively knocked England out in the World Cup.

and the rain that saved pakistan from loss in the 92 wc, and also the rain that probably cost them the test in bangalore in 01/02.

 

[marc71178]

I disagree with zinzan about Flintoff, but I don't think that means he's jealous.

I made the point to him and he didn't deny it.

 

[tooextracool]

Silly Geraint...

geraint the dumb*** is back!!

 

[tooextracool]

We need to look to alternatives such as Matt Prior or even look to bring back Chris Read who is without doubt the best gloveman in England. Jones is simply not good enough.

the question really is whether chris read's technique has actually improved since the last time he played at the international level, because he was most certainly rubbish at the time. its bad enough that our batting seems to start and end with pietersen but to have read make it even worse, wouldnt help the cause.

 

[wpdavid]

England really really must not panic they havnt turned into a bad side they have just been beaten by 2 of the best bowlers in history. I think Thorpe should have been in all along but wholesale changes really are not the way too go

Wholesale changes won't happen - it's not Fletcher & Graveney's style. However, that can become sheer head-in-the-sand obstinacy if certain glaring weaknesses aren't addressed and we gone on to lose the series 5-0.

 

[tooextracool]

Are there still any England fans under the misguided thought that England can actually compete this year? If they win a test, I'll put Kevin Pietersen as my avatar for a month..

i think most sensible people predicted a 3-0, 4-0 or 3-1 loss, and that remember was the prediction made when graham thorpe was actually in the side.

 

[kendall]

Apart from of course Thorpe which now seems too late and possibly the keeper i dont see really how the side could be improved in terms of personel.

 

[tooextracool]

A bit like Flintoff around 2003?

except that flintoff wasnt much of a bowler back then, and his luck more or less evened out in SL and in the WI thereafter.

 

[shankar]

and the rain that saved pakistan from loss in the 92 wc, and also the rain that probably cost them the test in bangalore in 01/02.

off topic, but is this the same bangalore test that just had one completed inning?

 

[tooextracool]

off topic, but is this the same bangalore test that just had one completed inning?

2 completed innings, with england leading by 131 runs and 10 wickets in hand with the ball seaming and swinging all over the place.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Sorry, the same Derbyshire that were in so much trouble that they declared their second innings at 7 down?

The Derbyshire side that had just scored 500+ and the Durham side that had scored 350+ in the first innings thanks to practically two players only and was chasing a lower target than they'd already scored.

 

[shankar]

2 completed innings, with england leading by 131 runs and 10 wickets in hand with the ball seaming and swinging all over the place.

Still,hardly a foregone conclusion that England would have won considering that India would have just had to bat out about 3 and a half sessions to save the series albeit in difficult conditions.

 

[tooextracool]

Still,hardly a foregone conclusion that England would have won considering that India would have just had to bat out about 3 and a half sessions to save the series albeit in difficult conditions.

about half of the game was lost to rain and bad light, and with india going in with one pace bowler, england would probably have gone on the attack and got a fair few runs to defend. obviously though theres no way you can guarantee the result, which is why i said 'probably cost us the game'.

 

[luckyeddie]

Oh dear GOD, he's found another Corky!!!

Just made my day, Corey.

Had a long journey home from Brizzle up a messy M5, thunderstorms and England's pretty spineless capitulation and then when I got back to Castle Donington I found that today was the British Motor Cycle Grand Prix or some similar rubbish with 50,000 peaple all with hair like Jason Gillespie's - and the police were using both sides of the road to route the same 50,000 Jason Gillespies away from the village. I had to make a 15 mile detour to get to my own home.

I needed cheering up - thanks.

 

[shankar]

about half of the game was lost to rain and bad light, and with india going in with one pace bowler, england would probably have gone on the attack and got a fair few runs to defend. obviously though theres no way you can guarantee the result, which is why i said 'probably cost us the game'.

Fair enough then. I'd forgotten that it hadnt just rained on the 4th and 5th days. And I thought you meant it was a foregone conclusion since you'd bracketed it with matches like the Eng-Pak '92 WC.

 

[luckyeddie]

Are there still any England fans under the misguided thought that England can actually compete this year? If they win a test, I'll put Kevin Pietersen as my avatar for a month..

In order to win a test match, the first priority is to be able to take 20 wickets. England achieved that, despite 7 dropped catches. Oh yes, I do believe that they can actually compete - and I'm STILL going for 3-1.

Funnily enough, so is Merv Hughes (or maybe he isn't). It was hilarious listening to him on Five Live this evening on my way home - he broke off to do an interview for some Aussie station - Drongo Outback Radio or something like that - and he was giving it 5-0 5-0 5-0, then when he did another interview for someone else he was stating that he was sticking to his earlier 3-1.

 

[luckyeddie]

I noticed something after that dismissal.

WHen the Aussies were huddled around together celebrating the wicket I saw Warne run off quickly.

I assumed he may have gone over to give Hoggard a send off after his comments.

Did anyone else notice this?

Someone told him he'd just had a text message from Helen somebody.

No, I don't think in all seriousness he'd make a fool of himself.

He leaves that to you now.