***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Steulen]

thorpe at 4 i'd expect.




sadly that will be the case, no matter how poorly tresco does in this series.

He'll probably get a century somewhere inbetween the failures...and the spot is his ad infinitum

 

[tooextracool]

This wicket isn't exactly a green-top though. It's got a reasonable amount of seam movement of course, but not as much as several wickets seen in the ODI series... mostly it's just got uneven bounce, which should be right up Harmison's alley. And really, it was reasonably true in Australia's innings comparitively. A few still shot off a length and other kept down (the second ball of the test, in fact), but not as much as in England's innings.

its not a green top but there is movement from the cracks on the wicket which has resulted in the uneven bounce, and uneven bounce + seam movement is quite deadly indeed . at least the wicket at Lords in the natwest final offered consistent bounce.

 

[Pratters]

why not? a slow turning wicket like the ones we saw at Lords and edgbaston last year against the WI might be the perfect wicket for England.

Compare the spin armoury of England and Australia and you know why thats a bad move.

 

[tooextracool]

He'll probably get a century somewhere inbetween the failures...and the spot is his ad infinitum

i doubt he'd get a century, unless he gets really lucky. he'd probably get a 70 odd though on a very flat track( like he did in the last 2 ashes series), probably at the Oval.

 

[maxpower]

I don't think it matters much about type of wicket for mcgrath, in a big game you can expect him to deliver, and lets not forget another player with same temprament warne. Eng batsmen have to be ready to be able to bat in any condition, coz warne and mcgrath will be ready to bowl anywhere.

 

[tooextracool]

Compare the spin armoury of England and Australia and you know why thats a bad move.

Giles isnt as poor as you make him out to be. and really Warne is going to be effective on any wicket anyways, so its not really going to get that much worse playing him on a slow turner. at least then the impact mcgrath has falls significantly.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Compare the spin armoury of England and Australia and you know why thats a bad move.

Yeah. I mean, people can say that Warne is dangerous on any wicket, but the fact is that he's still a lot better on a wicket which helps him, just like McGrath. If England produce a turner, I'd rate the chances of Australia playing Giles out comfortably higher than England avoiding a Warne rout.

 

[Pratters]

Giles isnt as poor as you make him out to be. and really Warne is going to be effective on any wicket anyways, so its not really going to get that much worse playing him on a slow turner. at least then the impact mcgrath has falls significantly.

On a turner Australia could bring in MacGill and he isnt as poor as is generally rated by many people. Their fast bowlers are also more adept at bowling on tracks that do not suit them if Australia do not go for MacGill like they did not in India. Over all Australia would have it easy on a turner over England.

England has a 4 pronged pace attack which is very good by any standard. Certainly they have the capability to dismiss Australia twice. It is England's only chance. Would it really matter to McGrath how the pitch is as much as it would to the English bowlers?

 

[tooextracool]

I picked him as my series surprise packet

i did too actually, because hes really an excellent player of both pace and spin and hes a very very sensible player.

 

[kof98]

According to the commentators Giles batting will not be of any use as his weakness during the winter tour against the short ball was again exposed today. If the ashes were being played a month earlier then maybe it would have been possible for England to have left Giles out and played Thorpe.

As it is now there will be assistance for the spinners in the series but I can't see Giles being very effective. Also on a pitch that is really turning Aus can play two quality spinners in MacGill and Warne and would then have a huge advantage over the England bowlers.

 

[tooextracool]

On a turner Australia could bring in MacGill and he isnt as poor as is generally rated by many people. Their fast bowlers are also more adept at bowling on tracks that do not suit them if Australia do not go for MacGill like they did not in India. Over all Australia would have it easy on a turner over England.

i doubt they'd bring in macgill, and i seriously doubt england would have too many problems against him either. its just warne really, and i think that england will struggle just as much against warne on a non turner as they will on a turner.

England has a 4 pronged pace attack which is very good by any standard. Certainly they have the capability to dismiss Australia twice. It is England's only chance. Would it really matter to McGrath how the pitch is as much as it would to the English bowlers?

mcgrath on a seam friendly wicket is unplayable. its really doesnt give you any chance at all, especially if warne ends up bowling as well as he can at the other end.
if you ask me, i think harmison would unsettle australia by getting a bit more bounce on a slowish wicket with a bit of uneven bounce as the game wears on, i think flintoff would still bowl well, as would jones and really only hoggard would be severely hampered. and giles comes into the game. right now, i cant see harmison, flintoff etc doing a better job than the aussie bowlers on a seam friendly pitch and i cant see englands batsmen doing a better job than the aussie batters against the likes off mcgrath and co.

 

[Pratters]

i doubt they'd bring in MacGill

I did not discount that possibility in my initial comment.

mcgrath on a seam friendly wicket is unplayable. its really doesnt give you any chance at all

McGrath is almost unplayable in any condition. Conditions dont make that much of a difference to him as it does to the English bowlers. Australian pacers are adept at bowling in less seamer friendly conditions. That aspect is much more open to question about the English bowlers.

especially if warne ends up bowling as well as he can at the other end.

Add an unplayable Warne on a turner to a potent pace attack and its dead end for England.

right now, i cant see harmison, flintoff etc doing a better job than the aussie bowlers on a seam friendly pitch and i cant see englands batsmen doing a better job than the aussie batters against the likes off mcgrath and co.

It is tough but not impossible. England has the capability of dismissing Australia on a seamer friendly condition as they showed. A bit more of spine in the batting (McGrath produced a cracker today but it wont always happen) - England can at least hope for some good partnerships means the difference on seamers are not that stark as on turners though I still believe there is a lot of depth in the Ausse side and tough any way you look at it for England to beat Australia.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Just been watching the highlights (so called.... ) on 4. McGrath was obviously getting a bit of help from the wicket, but didn't he just exploit it to perfection? Fred & Vaughan were both unlucky in as much as the ball kept low on both of them, but in both dismissals McGrath moved the ball back into them.

Lee bowled with great pace & hostility in his second spell, poor old Ash obviously doesn't fancy it at all.

Thought Gillespie bowled tripe again tho, too many deliveries on KP's pads which the big fella duly dispatched. KP played rather well in the circumstances I thought, showed he's far from a one-dimensional player. I suspect he may take the long handle to it in the morning tho. I can't see Hoggy keeping out Lee for too long & Jones & Harmy will almost certainly have a mow. Anything over 130 is a bonus for me.

I can't see the Aussies playing with such abandon (what were Langer & Katich thinking of?) in the second innings, so think we'll be staring down 350+ in the 4th innings.

Think the case now could be made for the extra batter at Giles's expense. On current form I don't think Fred is a test 6.

 

[aussie]

Man Mcgrath bowled amazingly! 5/21. England are finished unless KP plays well tommorow. Giles was such an idiot. Had to get out the last ball of the day!

to be fair to giles he does look a bit iffy againts the short ball & Lee was bowling extremely well at the end...

 

[aussie]

i doubt they'd bring in macgill, and i seriously doubt england would have too many problems against him either.

i doubt it as well but looking at the way Old trafford has played especially recently, to me he has more of a chance of playing here than anywhere...

 

[wpdavid]

Just been watching the highlights (so called.... ) on 4. McGrath was obviously getting a bit of help from the wicket, but didn't he just exploit it to perfection? Fred & Vaughan were both unlucky in as much as the ball kept low on both of them, but in both dismissals McGrath moved the ball back into them.

Lee bowled with great pace & hostility in his second spell, poor old Ash obviously doesn't fancy it at all.

Thought Gillespie bowled tripe again tho, too many deliveries on KP's pads which the big fella duly dispatched. KP played rather well in the circumstances I thought, showed he's far from a one-dimensional player. I suspect he may take the long handle to it in the morning tho. I can't see Hoggy keeping out Lee for too long & Jones & Harmy will almost certainly have a mow. Anything over 130 is a bonus for me.

I can't see the Aussies playing with such abandon (what were Langer & Katich thinking of?) in the second innings, so think we'll be staring down 350+ in the 4th innings.

Think the case now could be made for the extra batter at Giles's expense. On current form I don't think Fred is a test 6.

Nope. Our batting was always lkely to be a disaster, and so it proved. Barring a quite extraordinary couple of days, you would imagine all the psychological advantages will be with Aus again after this test. They know that, however much our quicks make them struggle from time to time, our batting will basically wave the white flag. It's happened 5 times out of 6 this summer, which looks like rather more than a coincidence to me.

All very dispiriting. You just hoped that for once our top 3 would get stuck in, but they seem pretty much shellshocked already. I feel sorry for Bell, who must be really thanking the genius that organised the schedule which has left him playing no fc cricket in the six weeks before his Ashes debut.

 

[aussie]

Think the case now could be made for the extra batter at Giles's expense. On current form I don't think Fred is a test 6.

yep i think England should be seriously considering that option after todays batting performace, while Australia should bat pup at #6 & if he continues to fail one would start to consider Hodge pretty soon.

 

[Blaze]

It's just like Bangladesh all over again really... number 8 coming out to bat within 30 overs, no defensive technique, lots of rash shots...

Or maybe both sides just bowled well?

 

[Blaze]

mmhmm. As I've said before, Australia bowled out cheaply = pitch must be a bowler's paradise, the mighty Australians cannot possibly be outplayed and so all blame must lie with some outside factor like the pitch or weather...

And people say I'm biased.

190 all out.. 90 odd for 7 and you think it's a good batting track?

 

[Tom Halsey]

But in fairness there was no sign at all of this in Australia's innings at all - the roller had a BIG effect.

Australia 190 all out was entirely their own fault - you play like they do, you take the consequences.