*Official* Australia in decline thread

[PY]

I'm just about to fly out to Bangladesh to play in the One Day series.

You are?? ig:

 

[Richard]

You are?? ig:

Sarcasm?
Daydreaming?
Overrating one's own ability?
Knowing something only he and David Graveney know? (well, until now, anyway)

 

[marc71178]

Overrating one's own ability?

Along with Neil, that is one thing I can most defintiely never be accused of doing!

 

[Craig]

Thommo: Australia will grovel

I read in today's paper Jeff Thompson predicted Australia will grovel when people like Warne and McGrath retire.

Cant findt he article but I will look it up.

 

[luckyeddie]

He learned that word off Tanny Grig

 

[Richard]

At least he didn't use it in a course, vulgar, deeply insulting manner.
I never though he meant what he ended-up meaning to the West Indians, but naivity can be a terrible thing.
Thommo just made a point about his countrymen. A point, I might add, that I've been making for nearly 2 years.

 

[luckyeddie]

At least he didn't use it in a course, vulgar, deeply insulting manner.
I never though he meant what he ended-up meaning to the West Indians, but naivity can be a terrible thing.
Thommo just made a point about his countrymen. A point, I might add, that I've been making for nearly 2 years.

Ahem.....

Next, you'll be agreeing with a certain coach with a penchant for the ridiculous.

 

[Top_Cat]

Thommo just made a point about his countrymen. A point, I might add, that I've been making for nearly 2 years.

That's the best thing about hanging onto a point like that; eventually, no matter how many years it takes, you'll be right in the end.

Don't worry, you'll feel just as vindicated as those who said in the late 70's of the WI's that it would "never last". Sure it took around 20 years but those guys were eventually right. And you'll be just as right as those who said the same things after Craig McDermott retired, after Mark Taylor retired, after Shane Warne was banned, after Allan Border retired, after, after, after............



I'll happily accept your point of view if you promise me that on your deathbed, if Australia are still the dominant cricket nation in the world, you'll admit you were wrong!

Seriously, man, saying that Australia's cricket dominance will end 'eventually' is about as useful as saying that everyone will die in the end. Well, DUH. :P

 

[Richard]

OK, I promise.
:saint:
I was actually talking about the bowling, not the dominance. You can never say anything about dominance for certain. For all we know, Bangladesh might suddenly dominate World cricket from their next match.
Still, that's a dangerous game I'm playing, promising I'll admit I was wrong on my deathbed - since WWI, Australia have wrestled almost unrivalled with West Indies for the best team in The World tag, though South Africa have almost immidiately rejoined the fray from their readmittance.
Didn't I discuss this with you before? Or was it eddie?

 

[Kenny]

As much as I loved Thommo when he was playing, since he retired he has often put the boots into our quicks.

He has had a couple of goes at Lee, and McGrath has also been a target in the past........I remember an interview with him in Inside Sport mag a few years ago when he said "These guys should break their ****in' shoulder and then try and bowl fast!!"

I'm pretty sure he's trying to wind them up (at least I hope so)

 

[warrioryohannan]

Re: Thommo: Australia will grovel

I read in today's paper Jeff Thompson predicted Australia will grovel when people like Warne and McGrath retire.

Cant findt he article but I will look it up.

Who does Thommo think is going to replace Aus for top slot??

 

[age_master]

That's the best thing about hanging onto a point like that; eventually, no matter how many years it takes, you'll be right in the end.

Don't worry, you'll feel just as vindicated as those who said in the late 70's of the WI's that it would "never last". Sure it took around 20 years but those guys were eventually right. And you'll be just as right as those who said the same things after Craig McDermott retired, after Mark Taylor retired, after Shane Warne was banned, after Allan Border retired, after, after, after............



I'll happily accept your point of view if you promise me that on your deathbed, if Australia are still the dominant cricket nation in the world, you'll admit you were wrong!

Seriously, man, saying that Australia's cricket dominance will end 'eventually' is about as useful as saying that everyone will die in the end. Well, DUH. :P

exactly

 

[mavric41]

Just because Thommo bowled quick, doesn't mean that he is quick between the ears.

 

[JohnnyA]

Re: Re: Thommo: Australia will grovel

Who does Thommo think is going to replace Aus for top slot??

That's tough one ... I see most of the test match teams declining in one way or another.

South Africa are on the down side. What happens when Pollock retires? Ntini is ordinary ... nothing else to speak off.

England have some very promising quick bowlers, but no real batters knocking down the door, still not convinved the balance will ever be right ... with the *badgered* retirment of Stewie Freddy must now become a bowling all rounder and bat at 7. That will shorten his career considerably ... being the third quick bowler.

India ... excellent batting mediocre bowling, especially outside India. Nothing much changes. I like Khan ... if they can put 2 good quick bowlers around him ... they have a chance to step up.

Sri Lanka ... decent all-round ... but without Murali, they're a bargain basement team.

New Zealand ... good all round team. Probably been at their peak these last 3 or 4 years. Will probably see a decline over the next few years ... not aided by the constant injuries to their one world class player (Bond)

Pakistan ... being rebuilding now for quite a while. Not really qualified to talk about them.

West Indies ... still look very weak in their traditional strength, bowling. Batting has improved over the last few years, but that's not much use if you're bowlers concede 400 every match.

Bang & Zim ... should improve ... it's not like they can get any worse.

So the moral of my story is ... who the hell is gonna over take Austrailia. Their batting looks set for another 5 years at least. They'll find decent replacements for McGrath, and by my reckoning, will still be the best in the world ... marginally.

Only difference is that they won't swamp teams as they do now. There wil be more 50/50 series, and they'll be put under pressure more ... how will there batters play when under constant pressure to perform?

I see a rebalancing of world cricket, with no one dominant team. Perhaps the first time for 40 or 50 years.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Re: Re: Re: Thommo: Australia will grovel

South Africa are on the down side. What happens when Pollock retires? Ntini is ordinary ... nothing else to speak off.

I actually think the opposite. I think things will come together quite nicely for South Africa in the next two years.

Ntini is a very much improved bowler and could be something very good by the time Pollock is away.

Nel has been extremely impressive when I've seen him. He could be another Allan Donald for South Africa.

I haven't seen Langeveldt, Zondeki et al to comment.

Smith is developing into a truly world-class player. If he can get some consistency into his game and sort out his offstump issues, he'll be a force.

Gibbs class.

Kallis class.

Martin van Jaarsveld is a very impressive cricketer and I can see him doing big things in the future, especially when Kirsten retires and he gets his own Test spot.

McKenzie. I'm not sold on him yet.

Boucher is a very good 'keeper IMO and certainly can hold a bat.

Pollock is an under-rated batsman and a superb bowler.

Peterson is a brilliant fielder, but doesn't seem a very penetrative bowler.

Overall, I think South Africa have a very good team, with names like Andy Hall and Jacques Rudolph floating around too.

 

[Gaijin-san]

Come on Liam, leave Peterson alone. He's had a hard day...

 

[Top_Cat]

Still, that's a dangerous game I'm playing, promising I'll admit I was wrong on my deathbed - since WWI, Australia have wrestled almost unrivalled with West Indies for the best team in The World tag, though South Africa have almost immidiately rejoined the fray from their readmittance.
Didn't I discuss this with you before? Or was it eddie?

Dunno. I don't remember it but that doesn't matter. I'm having to get up to speed, as it were, with my new job so damn fast, the phrase has lost all meaning. So I think I might have brained my damage...........

Judging by results and the quality of players coming though, I would have thought you could make a convincing case that England owned the 50's and 60's. Since DCS Compton's sweep to bring back the Ashes in '53, I feel sure that they were the dominant team for the period. Other than that, you're probably right but South Africa sure looked like threatening for a while!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Come on Liam, leave Peterson alone. He's had a hard day...

Hmmm... I though I was one of the people defending Peterson...

Peterson was mistreated. Smith gave him his first 12 overs in 4 different spells and he appeared under orders to bowl flat, when it was clear that he would do better tossing it up.

In the penultimate (28-run) over, Smith certainly did not help him by not having anyone back on the boundary. Shocking captaincy and I dare say that Lara would've hit Murali for 28 with those field placements and his form.

 

[Gaijin-san]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Thommo: Australia will grovel

Peterson is a brilliant fielder, but doesn't seem a very penetrative bowler.

is what I was referring to.

 

[Richard]

Dunno. I don't remember it but that doesn't matter. I'm having to get up to speed, as it were, with my new job so damn fast, the phrase has lost all meaning. So I think I might have brained my damage...........

Judging by results and the quality of players coming though, I would have thought you could make a convincing case that England owned the 50's and 60's. Since DCS Compton's sweep to bring back the Ashes in '53, I feel sure that they were the dominant team for the period. Other than that, you're probably right but South Africa sure looked like threatening for a while!

Some West Indies players in the '50s and '60s:
John Goddard, Jeffrey Stollmeyer, Frank Worrell, Everton Weeks (IMO the second-best batsman ever produced by The Caribbean), Clyde Walcott, Sir Garfield, Lance Gibbs, Wesley Winfield Hall, Sonny Ramadhin, Charles Griffith, Alfred Valentine.
Almost all of them played together for a short time; IMO there was only one side better than that in the game's history:
G. Pollock, Richards, Goddard, P. Pollock, Lance, Irvine, Barlow, Trimborn, Bacher, Lindsay, Procter, Chevalier.
For me it was West Indies since Bradman's retirement (since they beat England in 1950; the Compton sweep followed 3 years later), then South Africa very briefly, then Australia equally briefly, then West Indies from 1975 (the Chappell 5-1 excepted) to 1994.
In the Bradman era I think the only series they lost was the Bodyline. There were two pretty phenominal sides from Australia in his time:
Woodfull, Ponsford, Richardson, Fingleton, McCabe, Grimmett, O'Reilly, and of course himself who was almost twice as good as the best of those four.
And of course: Lindwall, Johnston, Barnes, Hassett, Morris, Loxton, Harvey, Miller, Brown, McCool, Tallon. Once again he himself made a very, very good side a phenominal one.
England had some good players in the '50s and '60s, too: Hutton, Barrington, Washbrook, Boycott, Compton, Edrich, Edrich, Lock, Bedser, Statham, Trueman, Tyson, Laker, Graveney, Dexter, Simpson, Sheppard, and a few more. But IMO it wasn't quite in the West Indian class.