***Official*** 3rd Test at the WACA

[Starfighter]

Or picking Borthwick in '13. Rankin too, when he clearly wasn't fit enough.

 

[quincywagstaff]

It's remarkable that Australia have won the Ashes so comprehensively considering none of their top 3 have had particularly distinguished series. Warner made some handy contributions but well below his usual hometown dominant style and seemed curiously circumspect so far. Bancroft shows promise but still has only played one innings of note to date. And Khawaja has looked miles below his form of last home summer so it's too his credit that he's made handy contributions in Adelaide and Perth.

Almost always when Australia have won Ashes series in recent memory it's usually been driven by one or two members of their top 3, but Smith has been such a colossus that it hasn't really mattered this time.

As for England, Ian Chappell's pre-series observation that it felt a lot like their doomed 2002/03 campaign proved correct; a very messy leadup with key players pulling out and injuries occurring constantly in the warmup period. Also, their squad was largely a mixture of promising but too raw talent, senior players on one Ashes tour too many and senior players at their peak who are spooked by playing in Australia.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Or picking Borthwick in '13. Rankin too, when he clearly wasn't fit enough.

Borthwick was already an excellent batsman who bowled long hops even in 2013. If they'd picked Borthwick as a number three it would've almost made sense.

 

[Son Of Coco]

KP comes across as a flog, but I did like his use of 'Tour De Sauce' to describe England's Ashes tour. It was mildly amusing. As was his talking about how he studied neuroscience textbooks in the rain breaks.

 

[JRC67]

We don't have a lot of options that would've done any better (not that you'd expect anyway) on this tour of Oz and that isn't something that can be fixed even with a complete overhaul to this side which, I agree with you, I hope we don't see. For us to find the players to be able to go to Australia, for example, and win, it is going to take a while and we need to put things in place in county cricket, at the academy and down into the age groups. This isn't an overreaction to the outcome of this series, but it has just magnified the areas we need to improve in order to succeed abroad.

I agree, although English cricket has been in this position before and what's been tried has failed. A plan that works in probably take 10 years to come to full fruition.

 

[quincywagstaff]

The most impressive achievement by Australia's bowling attack was on the second mornings of the Brisbane & Perth Tests. On both occasions the English batsmen had lost only 4 wickets after facing 100 overs and had seen off two new balls and it would've easy for the bowlers to mentally fall away and let the batsmen dominate. Instead the opposite happened and they ripped through the rest of the batting lineup within an hour or so. That shows there's not only great skill in the attack but real character and the ability to work as a bowling group.

 

[Debris]

It's remarkable that Australia have won the Ashes so comprehensively considering none of their top 3 have had particularly distinguished series. Warner made some handy contributions but well below his usual hometown dominant style and seemed curiously circumspect so far. Bancroft shows promise but still has only played one innings of note to date. And Khawaja has looked miles below his form of last home summer so it's too his credit that he's made handy contributions in Adelaide and Perth.

Almost always when Australia have won Ashes series in recent memory it's usually been driven by one or two members of their top 3, but Smith has been such a colossus that it hasn't really mattered this time.

As for England, Ian Chappell's pre-series observation that it felt a lot like their doomed 2002/03 campaign proved correct; a very messy leadup with key players pulling out and injuries occurring constantly in the warmup period. Also, their squad was largely a mixture of promising but too raw talent, senior players on one Ashes tour too many and senior players at their peak who are spooked by playing in Australia.

It is a refreshing change from the four out, all out theory that Australia have been working on recently.

 

[JRC67]

Mason Crane has a lot of potential, we need to find a way for him to play more four-day cricket. Unfortunately the way the season is set out again, it's unlikely he'll play much in the opening five rounds of the CC taking place in April and May, so just hope he earns a spot for the rest of the fixtures in June/Aug and Sept.

I think he'd benefit from 12 months at a smaller county where he plays every game. In danger of stagnating is he stays at Hampshire.

 

[Spark]

It is a refreshing change from the four out, all out theory that Australia have been working on recently.

England seem to have been working on a variation of that theory.

 

[Spark]

Also, there's talk questioning whether Joe Root should be captain around; have you all gone mad?

 

[Spikey]

Also, there's talk questioning whether Joe Root should be captain around; have you all gone mad?

they've got many outstanding leaders in the squad tbf

 

[Daemon]

they've got many outstanding leaders in the squad tbf

I certainly know of one individual who would meet the challenge head on

 

[Woodster]

I think he'd benefit from 12 months at a smaller county where he plays every game. In danger of stagnating is he stays at Hampshire.

Quite possibly and he may well benefit from being the main/only spinner in a county side where we can see if he relishes the extra responsibility/burden. The thing is he's 20 years old and would still represent a gamble from a county to take a punt on him filling that role and also to pick him in the first five rounds when the pitches are inevitably going to be stacked in favour of the seamers.

 

[JRC67]

Also, there's talk questioning whether Joe Root should be captain around; have you all gone mad?

I don't have a strong opinion on his captaincy, but do wonder about the strategy of just picking the best batsman as Captain. My guess is it is having some impact on his form. There doesn't seem an obvious alternative anyway. He's relatively young and I'm not sure he should have been burdened with it quite when it did.

 

[vcs]

England seem to have been working on a variation of that theory.

Every side succumbs to that malaise when in unfamiliar conditions. I am starting to think that this is one of the major reasons for why there is such a drastic difference in home and away results for pretty much every team nowadays.

 

[Spark]

I don't have a strong opinion on his captaincy, but do wonder about the strategy of just picking the best batsman as Captain. My guess is it is having some impact on his form. There doesn't seem an obvious alternative anyway. He's relatively young and I'm not sure he should have been burdened with it quite when it did.

I mean his on-field captaincy has been erratic to put it mildly (he'll learn), and his batting has not helped. But a lot of the latter is due to the quality of the bowling exploiting weaknesses in his technique and (more importantly) his approach to batting, and you would think that would rectify once he's away from Australian shores.

There really aren't any sensible alternatives to him at any rate.

 

[stephen]

Also, there's talk questioning whether Joe Root should be captain around; have you all gone mad?

Let's look at the options:

Cook - struggling for form, gave up the captaincy
Stoneman - trying to nail down his place. A future possibility.
Vince - needs to nail down his spot in the side but again, a future possibility
Root - the incumbent and England's best bat. The only pure batter guaranteed their place right now.
Malan - shown a lot of fight on this tour. Could prove to be a gutsy captain. Suffering from the "trying to nail down his spot" syndrome.
Stokes - can never be captain without a Warner-like makeover.
Bairstow - too much responsibility already.
Ali - too much to do given he's England's primary tweaker.
Overton - Decent bowler, likely to be in and out with injury and other bowlers higher in the pecking order.
Broad - Going to be dropped soon.
Woakes - See Broad.
Anderson - Two years left in his career. Not much upstairs. Would surely inspire Australia to whitewash again.

All three of the most genuine options for replacing Root as captain are still fighting for their places, especially if/when Stokes comes back. Once one of them has properly nailed down their position then Stoneman or Malan would be the best candidates for captaincy based on what I've seen.

 

[Spark]

I also think that Root seems a good leader, clearly has respect and authority in his dressing room, and the stuff he's failed at (onfield tactics, his own batting) is rectifiable.

 

[stephen]

I definitely think that the difference between the two sides hasn't been as huge as 3-0 suggests.

Stoneman has outperformed Bancroft in the "junior opener" role.
Warner has outperformed Cook in the "senior opener" role.
Khawaja and Vince have been about as good as each other so far.
Smith has been a hundred times better than Root.
Malan and S Marsh have both had one really good test.
Mitch Marsh has been incredible at number 6, but Bairstow has been pretty good too.
Paine has been decent without being spectacular. Ali has been utterly woeful.
Cummins has almost been an extra batsman.
Starc, Lyon, Overton, Woakes, Hazlewood, Anderson and Broad have all been genuine tail enders so far.

As far as bowling goes, the Australians have all been individually better than the English and have worked better as a unit than the English. They have hunted as a pack and the statistically worst bowler of the group, Cummins, has looked every bit as threatening as any Englishman. Anderson and Overton have both been quite good at times. Overton has gotten the more important wickets but has failed to maintain the pressure, while Anderson has picked up wickets in friendly conditions or when they haven't quite mattered as much but has been better able to tighten the screws when necessary. Broad, Woakes and Ball have all been bog ordinary. Lyon has outbowled the hell out of Ali.

So I think that there are some big positives England can take forward (Stoneman looks genuinely good, Vince is doing ok, Malan looks quite gutsy and has got some well earned runs under his belt and Bairstow is a pretty damn fine keeper/batsman).

Wholesale changes aren't necessary. England was always going to have a tough time on this tour. The big concerns are Cook, Broad, Woakes and Ali. Cook looks shot but is a genuinely great batsman (anyone able to average over 45 as an opener in predominantly English conditions is quality) so he could have a late career renaissance. He's at the "eye is a bit slower and technique changes need to be made to continue" phase of his career. Broad looks awful but it looks more like a technical issue than an age issue. Woakes looks utterly bog standard mediocre. Ali has been utterly trash on this tour (tbf that's what happens to touring finger spinners).

The biggest difference between the two sides has been Steven Smith. Where Root has been dire, Smith has been unbelievable. Taking Smith out of the picture and looking at the rest of the batting, England's top 5 have been collectively better than, or at least on a par with Australia's top 5. But Smith is like an extra batsman right now. He's so unbelievably good and it must be so soul crushing to try and bowl to him, wondering how you can possibly get him out.

 

[Shri]

Yes, Cummins has been Aus' Umesh Yadav.