***Official*** 3rd Test at the WACA

[Johnners]

Alright, more realistically Voges. Or Cosgrove if you want to blood a youngster with a lot of potential. But Jaques? After a decent season last year (top 20 averages), no really big scores in Pura Cup, what is the thinking behind including him? Not seeing any stand-out performances, just solidish. Cosgrove makes a far better case for inclusion.

Haha, Adam voges.... To suggest that he should be included before Brad Hodge, or even Simon Katich for that matter is ridiculous...

 

[spindizzy]

Haha, Queensland (1 to me )

Ronchi for Martyn?? You gotta be kidding me, thats like saying we should swap Beau Casson for Shane Warne

As for the Rogers/Jaques argument.... Rogers is a good FC player, who's been made look great thanks to the road at the WACA for the past few seasons. Jaques on the other hand has crunched all comers on a vast variety of wickets.

Need i remind you of a Double Century & Century in the same FC match against India A earlier in the year. Add to that quite a few centuries in county cricket, 2 centuries against England in successive matches and i think it's fair to say that he's got it all over Rogers.

Coming from QL is a minus all by itself, I'll type slower so you can follow

Don't agree about Jaques, the scores against the England warm up team England count for nothing. When he's got Hussey's record in County Cricket I'll notice. And compare what Langer did over there this year and the case for replacement there seems marginal.

But what about Cosgrove? The boy can bat a bit and would make a nice slot in replacement for Hayden when he retires.

 

[Johnners]

Coming from QL is a minus all by itself, I'll type slower so you can follow

Don't agree about Jaques, the scores against the England warm up team England count for nothing. When he's got Hussey's record in County Cricket I'll notice. And compare what Langer did over there this year and the case for replacement there seems marginal.

But what about Cosgrove? The boy can bat a bit and would make a nice slot in replacement for Hayden when he retires.

Queensland is quite obviously superior to WA.

The case for Jaques atm would be to be a replacement for Haydos...

In any case, not the bolded part, it's quite clearly the record of only a solid player

Batting and fielding averages 
class  mat  inns  no  runs  hs  ave  bf  sr  100  50  4s  6s  ct  st 
Tests   2   3   0   96   66   32.00   154   62.33   0   1   11   1   1   0 
ODIs   4   4   0   121   94   30.25   152   79.60   0   1   16   1   2   0 
[B]First-class  90   159   8   8653   244   57.30   25   41    75   0 [/B]
List A   98   96   7   3853   158*   43.29   4186   92.04   9   22         27   0

Add to that the fact that he's outscored both Rogers & Cosgrove in domestic cricket (in both England & Aust) quite comprehensively for the past 2/3 years. Yes he's not gunning it yet this year, but he hasn't been dire either, and has still looked in good touch. As for Rogers' average this year i think it can be quite obviously attributed to a batting road.

 

[spindizzy]

Have to agree to disagree. BTW how long did it take QL to win its first Sheffield Shield? (Though after they broke their duck they've made a much better showing)

Missing that obvious superiority there

Honestly though, Cosgrove would be my first choice even though he's from SA. I'm inclined to ignore County stuff because it's just not the cauldron that State cricket here is.

Can I assume from your silence on him you don't completely disagree?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Don't think he'd make all that much difference to be honest, swing bowlers really only seem to work under English conditions with the duke ball.

The thing that keeps amusing me is the continual calls for Jaques inclusion in the Australian side. He's currently about 30th on batting averages with an average in the low 30s, hardly a huge cry for inclusion. The scores against a warm-up, understrength England count for naught. Rogers would seem a much better replacement as an opener with already a 279 with an average of 91 to his name this season or Ronchi if you want a swap for Martyn. The talk about Jaques seems to be because he's from NSW and that's where the press are centred.

Hahahaha. Quality stuff there.

 

[Johnners]

Have to agree to disagree. BTW how long did it take QL to win its first Sheffield Shield? (Though after they broke their duck they've made a much better showing)

Missing that obvious superiority there

Honestly though, Cosgrove would be my first choice even though he's from SA. I'm inclined to ignore County stuff because it's just not the cauldron that State cricket here is.

Can I assume from your silence on him you don't completely disagree?

I see Cosgrove as a no.3 or no.4 for the longer version of the game, but i wouldn't be rushing him into the team anytime soon. Brad Hodge & Shane Watson are well ahead of him.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Cosgrove can get in front of Jaques in the line for opening when he starts opening himself in FC cricket.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Looks like Hodge might play in Perth now, given Martyn's retirement. That's assuming Watson isn't fit, which he probably won't be. In fact, even if he is, he'll have no cricket behind him and they might not pick him until Boxing Day.

I suppose losing Martyn also opens the door for a five bowler policy, if they go that way. I find it a bit hard to see them doing that unless they bring MacGill into the squad, but you never know.

The other option is Jaques in the middle order, but I think they've got him down as a replacement opener instead. If Hodge isn't fit they might go for Jaques at 4, but otherwise I don't think they'd bat him down the order.

 

[mikeW]

Looks like Hodge might play in Perth now, given Martyn's retirement. That's assuming Watson isn't fit, which he probably won't be. In fact, even if he is, he'll have no cricket behind him and they might not pick him until Boxing Day.

I suppose losing Martyn also opens the door for a five bowler policy, if they go that way. I find it a bit hard to see them doing that unless they bring MacGill into the squad, but you never know.

The other option is Jaques in the middle order, but I think they've got him down as a replacement opener instead. If Hodge isn't fit they might go for Jaques at 4, but otherwise I don't think they'd bat him down the order.

Watson has already ruled himself out of the 3rd test, it was in the hearld sun today.

 

[Blewy]

Have to agree to disagree. BTW how long did it take QL to win its first Sheffield Shield? (Though after they broke their duck they've made a much better showing)

Missing that obvious superiority there

Honestly though, Cosgrove would be my first choice even though he's from SA. I'm inclined to ignore County stuff because it's just not the cauldron that State cricket here is.

Can I assume from your silence on him you don't completely disagree?

You've gone from wanting Rogers, then Ronchi, then Voges and now Cosgrove.... Anyone else??

 

[mikeW]

Voges is in but WTF?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Not too surprised they didn't go with Jaques. As I said earlier, they've obviously got him down as an opener and not a middle order bat and they won't want to stray from that.

Hodge is clearly out of contention with injury otherwise they'd have picked him. Symonds isn't really a big shock, and I think unfortunately that he'll get the nod, but Voges is really inexplicable. I could understand him being considered for the ODI team, but as a test player? Surely there's half a dozen better FC bats they could have picked, even leaving Jaques aside. Katich? Hell, Marsh? It really is a stunner.

I doubt he'll play anyway. Symonds will bat at 6.

 

[chaminda_00]

Poor decision really, Voges and Symonds are crap really. Cosrgrove ever unlikely

 

[Nate]

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=995755&postcount=7

Should be an Aussie selector.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Poor decision really, Voges and Symonds are crap really. Cosrgrove ever unlikely

I don't think Voges is "crap" at all, but he's clearly not one of the best batsmen in the country. Symonds is, realistically, pretty crap. If he manages to get it right I can see him making decent runs once or twice, but he's never going to be much of a threat with the ball. He bowled about as well as he can last year in the tests and still only had one good game.

 

[chaminda_00]

I don't think Voges is "crap" at all, but he's clearly not one of the best batsmen in the country. Symonds is, realistically, pretty crap. If he manages to get it right I can see him making decent runs once or twice, but he's never going to be much of a threat with the ball. He bowled about as well as he can last year in the tests and still only had one good game.

Do you honestly think Voges will do anything in Test Cricket, a good ODI prospect though. Also it should be mentioned that Voges is 27, not that old, but they would have been better bring in someone like Crosgrove who they can build a side around. Just looks like they are blooding some guys for the World Cup, in Test Cricket really. Pretty stupid considering this is the Ashes series. His never been that great in FC and was in and out of the side when the Test players came back. Really should have never gone close to the Test side, let alone make the squad.

 

[Nate]

I think it`s a top selection. Young player, been great the last few seasons and amazing this season. The Perth wicket will be very unpredictable and Voges will know how it plays. Gun fielder and decent part-time spinner as well.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think it`s a top selection. Young player, been great the last few seasons and amazing this season. The Perth wicket will be very unpredictable and Voges will know how it plays. Gun fielder and decent part-time spinner as well.

I don't think anybody (other than Tharmi) is saying that Voges is a bad player. He's obviously good and is in good form as well. I don't see what his home ground has to do with it as you don't give players test caps based on them knowing the conditions, but the guy can play.

I really don't see though how he's more deserving than Jaques. Hell, even Cosgrove or Birt would be more deserving of a place based on their performances, and as a prospect for the future you'd look at someone like Marsh. It's not like Voges is Michael Clarke. He's 27 and hasn't played ODIs, his performances for Australia A have been less impressive than those of other players and he's made heaps of runs on the flattest pitch in the country this year. Poor choice.

 

[chaminda_00]

I think it`s a top selection. Young player, been great the last few seasons and amazing this season. The Perth wicket will be very unpredictable and Voges will know how it plays. Gun fielder and decent part-time spinner as well.

His not really that young at 27, by world standards, but compared to the rest of the Australian team maybe.

 

[chaminda_00]

I never said he is a bad player Sean, just his not up to Test standard and its crap selection compared to the other they could have picked.