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*Official* 2024 South Africa tour of New Zealand: 2 tests

straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
The thing about Home-Track-Bullying of weaker attacks is, unsurprisingly, if everyone in your side forgets or is too refined to score those runs, you will lose. Shock news, I know. And we've found this out a few times recently e.g. home loss to Bangladesh.

HTB seems to be used sometimes as a synonym for being Terrible Away, but it shouldn't be. The criticism of players like Latham is that they're terrible away from home, or against decent attacks, full stop. Focusing on the HTB-ing that goes on in between is looking at the wrong thing.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
ashley bach said:
Not outs shouldn't count for the purpose of this stat.
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Agreed, although he scored 49 the innings before so I guess it evens it out.

He hasn't failed to convert a half century (ie got out) since before COVID. Almost 4 years ago to the day. 11 tons, four of them doubles, another two match-winning unbeaten knocks (Sri Lanka and this one).

As Southee said, you run out of things to say. I also liked what Dylan Cleaver said in his (outstanding) newsletter yesterday, that Kane is a freak, but he's a normal freak. He's not a Michael Jordan uber-competitive ****s on his teams, gambles heavily freak, not a ego guy, just a wife, kids, picket fence, humble as they come freak. It's just incredible. A lot of high performers come with baggage but there's zero of it with Kane.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
straw man said:
The thing about Home-Track-Bullying of weaker attacks is, unsurprisingly, if everyone in your side forgets or is too refined to score those runs, you will lose. Shock news, I know. And we've found this out a few times recently e.g. home loss to Bangladesh.

HTB seems to be used sometimes as a synonym for being Terrible Away, but it shouldn't be. The criticism of players like Latham is that they're terrible away from home, or against decent attacks, full stop. Focusing on the HTB-ing that goes on in between is looking at the wrong thing.
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I could give a **** less about the HTB tag. Those of us who follow our team fervently know how many massive knocks he's played, home and away. Batting away is hard. Those who want to point to it as a blot on him as a Fab Four member can go right ahead, but we know that all the success in the last 14 years doesn't happen without Kane. Knocks like the WTC final that no one else could have played, the vital one in the 2019 WC semi final, ones like this that look like they need an asterisk next to it but that doesn't do them justice.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Chill guys, the hefty hot takes will come after our massive loss to Aussie (Kane will probably score single digits to boot) and the player comparison sub will briefly venture from their dark corner of CW to gleefully tell us KW is Tom Latham with a beard, with assistance from a minority of fans of 3 certain countries with a superiority complex.

Just remember in their nook they promote takes like "Kallis was not an allrounder" and "Jayawardene/Sanga were flat track bullies and Murali relied on home dustbowls" a straight face. They don't actually like cricket, they like being right.

Back in 2009 we crossed our fingers KW would crack an average of 40. Maybe the heady heights of 45 if he really was as good as Crowe. I haaaate it when NZ settles for 3rd if the door to 1st is open but I've watched enough KW overseas hundreds, and the manner in which they're scored, to be comfortable he has a sample size issue not a mental or technical issue. He's a lot more rocks and diamonds overseas. Less 30s.

Besides, his best two knocks weren't even tons.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
SteveNZ said:
Without this hundred, we potentially lose the Test and don't win the series. It had pressure written all over it and he delivered on a pitch where few had before him. I'd say it ranks higher than you'd expect. He averaged 134 across the series, Rachin averaged 70 but failed 3 times, Bedingham averaged 67 then of the guys who played both Tests, the next best average is 33. SA's attack deserves more respect. I could name quite a few 'first-string' attacks that have come out here with less quality. Test cricket is so nuanced, it's so demanding, unless you're playing literally a club side there's no asterisk.
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Test cricket is supposed to be the best players from one country playing the best players from another.

The team representing S Africa was not made up of their best players, or anything approaching that.

That doesn't mean Williamson didn't play well or wasn't under pressure, but he wasn't playing against South Africa's best players.
 
Skyliner

Skyliner

International 12th Man
www.1news.co.nz

Black Caps pace bowler Kyle Jamieson suffers major injury setback

Jamieson faces a lengthy spell on the sidelines after a new stress fracture was found in his back.
www.1news.co.nz www.1news.co.nz

‘Black Caps fast bowler Kyle Jamieson is set for a lengthy spell on the sidelines after suffering another injury setback.

Jamieson, 29, won't play cricket again "until at least next summer" after a new stress fracture was found in his back – in the same place as a previous injury – after the opening Test against South Africa, a statement from New Zealand Cricket said.

He's not expected to undergo surgery but months of rest and rehabilitation are set to give the injury the best chance to heal.’
 
H

Hurricane2

U19 Cricketer
Skyliner said:
www.1news.co.nz

Black Caps pace bowler Kyle Jamieson suffers major injury setback

Jamieson faces a lengthy spell on the sidelines after a new stress fracture was found in his back.
www.1news.co.nz www.1news.co.nz

‘Black Caps fast bowler Kyle Jamieson is set for a lengthy spell on the sidelines after suffering another injury setback.

Jamieson, 29, won't play cricket again "until at least next summer" after a new stress fracture was found in his back – in the same place as a previous injury – after the opening Test against South Africa, a statement from New Zealand Cricket said.

He's not expected to undergo surgery but months of rest and rehabilitation are set to give the injury the best chance to heal.’
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Oh man....
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Ashes81 said:
Test cricket is supposed to be the best players from one country playing the best players from another.

The team representing S Africa was not made up of their best players, or anything approaching that.

That doesn't mean Williamson didn't play well or wasn't under pressure, but he wasn't playing against South Africa's best players.
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Yeah, it is supposed to be, no arguments there. So you can say it might not be as meritorious as against Nortje, Rabada etc but I reject the idea it's an asterisk in regards to Kane because most people struggled to score runs and his performance - as all the greats do - was so exceedingly above the rest. If the rest had filled their boots then ok. It was another incredible performance from a guy who carries a nation on his shoulders.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
SteveNZ said:
Yeah, it is supposed to be, no arguments there. So you can say it might not be as meritorious as against Nortje, Rabada etc but I reject the idea it's an asterisk in regards to Kane because most people struggled to score runs and his performance - as all the greats do - was so exceedingly above the rest. If the rest had filled their boots then ok. It was another incredible performance from a guy who carries a nation on his shoulders.
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Williamson is a really great player and I'm not saying his runs against S Africa were easy runs - but it wasn't against the best players from S Africa which is what test cricket should be about.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Ashes81 said:
Test cricket is supposed to be the best players from one country playing the best players from another.

The team representing S Africa was not made up of their best players, or anything approaching that.
Click to expand...
George Headley is still one of the top 15 batters of all time despite not always playing the best English bowlers.

The All Blacks sent a B team to tour Europe in 2002 and England crowed about beating them by 3 points and we were all gutted to lose.
 
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Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Plus NZ are operating under the burden of quotas, or rather non-transformation targets. NZC mandating that the team contains 90% over 32-year olds over a 12 month period.

So, big asterisk against Bedingham' ton here. Up against against 35 and 38 year old dobblers, when they aren't the best available players in the country.
 
P

PlayerComparisons

International Regular
Ashes81 said:
Williamson is a really great player and I'm not saying his runs against S Africa were easy runs - but it wasn't against the best players from S Africa which is what test cricket should be about.
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I guess you would agree that none of Harry Brook’s test hundreds count since they were against attacks that were missing their best bowlers?
 
W

WpGuy

U19 Cricketer
Big_Gun said:
Scoring a winning 100 in the 4th innings chasing a decent total will always rank high.
imagine the pressure on him
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Good innings, but the scotland ireland bowlers are a higher calibre then the 6th choice proteas bowling lineup barring
Piedt, our batsmen are a few first choice some 2nd and some 3/4th choice.
 
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