NSW...can they compete at international leveL?

[Gaijin-san]

I'm not sure about that. If a wicket keeper dropped one off my bowling, first I'd clip his ear, then I'd get back to my crease and bowl harder, and make it more straightforward for the pesky bastard. Some people would react differently, see? :P

 

[marc71178]

My problem with him, is that it seems silly to rate Seccombe as you do. It's not like his dismissals are brought about by his own keeping, it's the bowler's dismissals,

Actually, they're all batsman error, so why should he get any credit at all. In fact, why not replace him with a robot?

 

[Gaijin-san]

Why not indeed. I'm sure it'd be smarter than a Queenslander.

 

[Eclipse]

furious_ged

Haddin is more positive and has a better effect anyway.
I don't see how Seccombe can be a 'much better keeper', Haddin is pretty good so how much better can Seccombe be? I don't think it matters that much.
This average catch thing is just ****, mate. Perhaps NSW bowlers have a higher percentage of dismissals not involving the keeper, I'll leave you to find that one out. But Seccombe does not MAKE these catches, as neither does Haddin. All the keeper can do is take what comes to him, which is what I've seen Haddin do.

most people who know Haddin's game seem to agree that he could avrage alot higher than 31 in FC cricket just look at that strike rate of 73. If he toned down his aggression or just became slightly more selective in his strokes he could avrage 40+

 

[mavric41]

Why not indeed. I'm sure it'd be smarter than a Queenslander.

who is always better than a blue

 

[Eclipse]

Secombe is a better keeper than Haddin but the gap is not that massive but it is noticable.

Haddin has more of a chance of playing for Australia IMO because he is younger and and a better more talented batsman.

 

[The Argonaut]

With regard to the original question. NSW would win a few international games but would be as good as the middle of the pack. Some of the players are nearing the end of their careers and the back up is not brilliant. The full strength Queensland side IMO is just as good as NSW. I'd love to see a game between the two full strength sides which is more likely than seeing NSW take anyone on in a test match.

The wicket keeping debate. There is no doubt that Seccombe is a better wicket keeper than Haddin. I've see Haddin muff plenty of chances over the years to say this. Seccombe takes almost all of the half chances that come his way. His only weakness would be keeping to spinners. Berry would be a close second to Seccombe. I don't know who the selectors would choose if Gilchrist was injured but I suspect that even Campbell is higher up the pecking order than Haddin. Seccombe has worked very hard on his batting and over the last season and a half has been very good.

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

let me run through the FULL strength NSW team for u..

M.Slater
M.Waugh
S.Katich
S.Waugh
M.Clarke
M.Bevan
B.Haddin
B.Lee
N.Bracken
S.Macgill
G.Mcgrath

Well I was interested in how would NSW would do against an international side. So I compared the First Class & List A stats of NSW & Indian players. These stats are as of 3/12/03.

I'll start off with my NSW side:
M.Slater
M.Waugh
S.Katich
S.Waugh
M.Clarke
M.Bevan
B.Haddin
B.Lee
N.Bracken
S.Macgill
G.Mcgrath

First Class Stats
1672 matches between them

Batting
2575 innings between them
96569 runs@44.33 between them
285 100's between them
430 50's between them

Bowling
20511.1 overs bowled between them
61829 runs conceded between them
2161 wickets between them
Average of 28.61
Strike Rate of 56.94
Economy of 3.01 runs per over
94 five wickets in a innings between them
15 ten wickets in a match between them


List A Stats

2070 matches between them

Batting
1633 innings between them
50765 runs@38.90 between them
63 100's between them
336 50's between them

Bowling
7789.3 overs bowled between them
35001 runs conceded between them
1296 wickets between them
Average of 27.00
Strike Rate of 36.06
Economy of 4.49 runs per over
15 five wickets in a innings between them

India (was my predicted side before the 1st Test against Australia had begun)
Sadagoppan Ramesh
Virender Sehwag
VVS Laxman
Sachin Tendulkar
Rahul Dravid
Sourav Ganguly
Ajit Agarkar
Parthiv Patel
Harbhajan Singh
Zaheer Khan
Ashish Nehra

First Class Stats
1117 matches between them

Batting
1697 innings between them
68655 runs@46.48 between them
181 100's between them
325 50's between them

Bowling
11478.4 overs bowled between them
34790 runs conceded between them
1143 wickets between them
Average of 30.43
Strike Rate of 60.25
Economy of 3.03 runs per over
53 five wickets in a innings between them
10 ten wickets in a match between them


List A Stats

1823 matches between them

Batting
1561 innings between them
50668 runs@38.18 between them
105 100's between them
284 50's between them

Bowling
6810.3 overs bowled between them
32251 runs conceded between them
993 wickets between them
Average of 32.47
Strike Rate of 41.15
Economy of 4.73 runs per over
6 five wickets in a innings between them


From these stats, I reckon that this NSW side could beat this Indian side comfortablly (in both forms).

The Indians are not bad at all with the bat, esp if you have an S.Tendulkar in your side. Though NSW have by a country mile the better bowling attack as these stats suggest, when NSW can have a bowler of the class of Glenn McGrath for example, it certainly helps greatly.

 

[marc71178]

Those stats mean nothing as they're played in completely different conditions, and whereas the vast majority of the Indian players games are against Test sides, a lot of those NSW games are against states.

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Those stats mean nothing as they're played in completely different conditions, and whereas the vast majority of the Indian players games are against Test sides, a lot of those NSW games are against states.

Of course there are factors which have affected players stats but you cannot just completely ignore these stats. Remember these are First Class & List A stats which includes Tests and ODI's not just domestic or tour matches.

Though after all wasn't this a discussion on whether NSW can compete at international level.

 

[Rik]

From these stats, I reckon that this NSW side could beat this Indian side comfortablly (in both forms).

Oh yes, of course, when you look at the stats and realise that the Indians average 2 runs more than NSW and are only about 1 1/2 runs down on the bowling. Comfortable is not the word I'd use. Maybe or Occasionally is a better word.

 

[Rik]

Why not indeed. I'm sure it'd be smarter than a Queenslander.

How can you expect anyone to take you, or your opinions seriously when you resort to comments such as this?

 

[deeps]

Those stats mean nothing as they're played in completely different conditions, and whereas the vast majority of the Indian players games are against Test sides, a lot of those NSW games are against states.

the majority of
M.Slater
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
B.Lee
G.Mcgrath
and alot of M.Bevan are all against international sides

And the austrlalian domestic league is at a much higher level then the indian one...so i know that it still favours the aussies,but not TOO much

 

[Rik]

the majority of
M.Slater
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
B.Lee
G.Mcgrath
and alot of M.Bevan are all against international sides

And the austrlalian domestic league is at a much higher level then the indian one...so i know that it still favours the aussies,but not TOO much

Looking at the stats, considering the pitches they have to bowl on and the batsmen they have to face, I think the Indian bowlers are better than their average of 30.

 

[Gaijin-san]

How can you expect anyone to take you, or your opinions seriously when you resort to comments such as this?

Quite easily, I'll have you know

 

[deeps]

How can you expect anyone to take you, or your opinions seriously when you resort to comments such as this?

i'm sure he was just having a dig at queenslanders, and playin around a lil bit(aka a joke)....don't take everything so seriously

 

[bigquickbowler]

Re: Re: NSW...can they compete at international leveL?

They couldn't beat Australia

Seriously though, compare that team to a normal-form South Africa, who doesn't choke it, and I think you'll find that they should lose more often than not:

M Slater v GC Smith - no comment, if Smith can get that flaw in his early game fixed. 15 runs up for SA.
M Waugh v HH Gibbs - 10 runs up for NSW. Both excellent batsmen, but Waugh can perhaps make it
S Katich v HH Dippenaar - fairly equal skill players, if not Dippenaar slightly better.
SR Waugh v JH Kallis - Equal. Waugh is a better batsman, Kallis makes up with a wicket.
MJ Clarke v G Kirsten - 10 runs up for SA. Clarke is unproven yet.
MG Bevan v ND McKenzie - Equal. McKenzie is a better batsman, Bevan makes up for it with his bowling
BJ Haddin v MV Boucher - 20 runs up for SA. Boucher is an experienced Test keeper, Haddin hasn't been near any Australia.
B Lee v SM Pollock - 5 runs up for SA. Lee takes more wickets, but Pollock can knock 50s and more.
N Bracken v RJ Peterson - 5 runs up for NSW, at least on current form.
S MacGill v PR Adams - Equal.
G McGrath v M Ntini - 15 runs up for NSW. Best bowler in the world, can't argue with that.

SA win by 10 runs...

Stuart MacGill is alot better than Paul Adams there is no comparisons between the two players

 

[Salamuddin]

NSW may occasionally be able to beat international sides (exclu -- but I think you're underestimating the loss(or absence I should say) of Hayden, Gilchrist and Gillespie my friend, Deeps.

Who are their equivalents in the NSW team ?
I've seen both Haddin and PIlon -- neither are anywhere near as good as Gilchrist who is a once in a lifetime talent.
Slater to replace Hayden ? ; Slater is a good player but absolutely nowhere near as consistent as Hayden, arguably the best batsman in the world.

The NSW bowling lineup of Mcgrath, McGill, Lee and Bracken is very good -- but Lee is a trifle overrated (his bowling average is higher than Bond's and Akhtar's - the only two bowlers of comparable speeds on the world circuit) and Bracken isn't anywhere near as good as Gillespie.
Mcgill frankly is not as good a bowler.

To beat international sides consistently, you need that extra bit of class and firepower which Australia certainly have but NSW do not.

 

[deeps]

well, the Australian team is absolutely blitzing most countries in the world...they are LEagues ahead of the rest... Obviously the NSW team won't beat the Aus team...

But they will EASILY beat the following (9 out of 10 times)

Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, England, India (in australia), West Indies (If lara doesn't play a super innings), New Zealand

I won't include pakistan,bcoz they are way too unpredictable...On their day,they can beat ne1 easily

South Africa and India (in india) are really the only teams that i believe that would beat the NSW team more often than not...

Haddin matches up to MOST oppositoni wicket keepers...he'ss a better w/k batsman than wat england,zimbabwe,bangladesh,india all have

Boucher and Ridly Jacobs are the only two real w/k's that are better batsman than haddin... oh,and maybe moin khan

Slater,although he's useless now, in his heyday,would've made alot of international sides

Macgill is a world class spinner,and is severely under-rated bcoz he's been living under warne's shadow

Bracken is still young and developing,but has taken huge stridse in the last year...especially in india...He's playing his first test out there now!

Mohammed Sami is another bowler off the pace of bond,akthar and lee

Lee is not over-rated...He is a good bowler,who's avg is inflated becoz he's been bowling with injuries,and other various reasons...He has really matured as a bowler in the last 2 years or so...

Lee,Mcgrath,Macgill and Bracken...that matches and beats almost any attack in the world...

Swaugh,Mwaugh,Katich,MClarke,MBevan,BHaddin are all very very good batsman and are a very strong batting order...ONly india,and south africa have a better batting order..

 

[marc71178]

the majority of
M.Slater
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
B.Lee
G.Mcgrath
and alot of M.Bevan are all against international sides

And the austrlalian domestic league is at a much higher level then the indian one...so i know that it still favours the aussies,but not TOO much

Slater - 74 Tests, 142 FC matches
M Waugh - 128 Tests, 233 FC
S Waugh - 164 Tests, 183 FC
Lee - 35 Tests, 28 FC
McGrath - 95 Tests, 60 FC
Bevan - 18 Tests, 193 FC

Yes, I can see your point, only 2 have played more Tests than FC, and the majority aren't even close!