No Ashes for India and Pakistan

[Sanz]

It is because those guys take their fat behinds to work and work 10-12 hours a day, not mentioning commuting. And that is why even sometimes one day matches held during the daytime are undersold in the subcontinent. People dont have as much time or money to waste back there as they do in England or Australia. I can afford to quit my job right now and coast for the next 2-3 months before i would need a new job. 99.9% subcontinental folks cannot afford to miss a day's work.
Perhaps if you go to the subcontinent and see it for yourself, you'd get the gist. People there predominantly follow sports while taking a break from work or during holidays(School holidays, for eg. summer/winter holidays which is why during summer/winter you see so many young people in the grounds).
Life there is a lot different than in the rich nations- people dont have time or the resources to sit around on their fat arses sipping margaritas under an umbrella watching a guy whack a ball.

Nonsense, People in Western countries spend more time in commuting than those in India. I lived in Mumbai (santacruz) and spent less time in commute than I do in small town of Pittsburgh. I dont even need to tell you the time it took to travel to and from work when I used to work in places like San Frans or New York.( My work place in the Steel city is about 10 minutes from my home, but in the morning traffic it takes me 50 minutes each way).

In India bunking school is not a big deal, students do that at will and they are never short of money to watch cricket...esp when tickets for test matches cos around 100-200 Rs.

 

[luckyeddie]

If you think that working 10-12 hours a day not counting commute is a 'generalisation', i got news for you - take a plane trip to India and spend a few weeks there, not in some airy fairy hotel but mingling with the people.
And if explaining something is making a big issue out of it, no wonder the world has so much problems.

It's not what you say - it's the way that you say it.

You have absolutely no idea what my circumstances are, yet you seem to feel that you have a duty to lecture me on what my attitude to people in India ought to be.

 

[C_C]

Nonsense, People in Western countries spend more time in commuting than those in India. I lived in Mumbai (santacruz) and spent less time in commute than I do in small town of Pittsburgh. I dont even need to tell you the time it took to travel to and from work when I used to work in places like San Frans or New York.( My work place in the Steel city is about 10 minutes from my home, but in the morning traffic it takes me 50 minutes each way).

In India bunking school is not a big deal, students do that at will and they are never short of money to watch cricket...esp when tickets for test matches cos around 100-200 Rs.

In that case, you are in the small minority. The average Indian spends over an hour getting to the job or back. I spent 1.5 hours in the bus every morning going to my highschool(i lived in Kolkata) and i've found the same commute times when i visited Delhi a few times over the summer.
As per bunking school not being a big deal - it is a far bigger deal there than in the west. You dont get expelled from school that easily in the west. In India you can be expelled for a host of reasons, beginning with simply not doing your homework consistently.
As per having 100-200 bucks handy to go watch a day's worth of cricket, you are speaking for at most 5% of Indian students- most students dont have much more than the bus fares in their pockets.Life in India is far harder than in the west, which is why you have millions of Indians immigrating to the west but hardly any westerner immigrating to India.

 

[C_C]

It's not what you say - it's the way that you say it.

You have absolutely no idea what my circumstances are, yet you seem to feel that you have a duty to lecture me on what my attitude to people in India ought to be.

Never commented about your attitude towards people in India. I commented on what life in India is like. I said that in India there arnt many people who can sit on their fat bottoms under a beach umbrella watching a game of cricket as you have in the west.

 

[Sanz]

If you think that working 10-12 hours a day not counting commute is a 'generalisation', i got news for you - take a plane trip to India and spend a few weeks there, not in some airy fairy hotel but mingling with the people.
And if explaining something is making a big issue out of it, no wonder the world has so much problems.

Who works 10-12 hours in a day ?

Dad and 10 other family members worked/still work for Tatas, work hours - 8-4/6-2/2-10 (includes 1 hour lunch) 6 days
Have a no. of family members working for govt (from Peon to IAS) Work hours - 10-4, 6 days

Have folks working in Banks, work Hours 10-5 (during year ends - 9 am to-9 pm), 6 days, 6th day being a half day.

Have brothers working in IT industry - work 8-10 hours on an avg. (5 days a week)

 

[Fusion]

I don't know about India, but I can say VERY confidently that most people in Pakistan prefer watching Test cricket on TV (or listen to it on Radio) rather than goto the stadium. There are numerous reasons for that (lack of time, uncomfortable surroundings, weather etc). So yes, the crowds don't generally show up to watch Test cricket in Pakistan. That doesn't mean that the Pak/Ind series is not highly anticipated. If Pakistan or India had a "Neilsens" TV ratings system like the U.S, I'm sure it would proof that the TV ratings for the current Pak/Ind series are off the charts, just like they allways are.

 

[C_C]

Who works 10-12 hours in a day ?

Dad and 10 other family members worked/still work for Tatas, work hours - 8-4/6-2/2-10 (includes 1 hour lunch) 6 days
Have a no. of family members working for govt (from Peon to IAS) Work hours - 10-4, 6 days

Have folks working in Banks, work Hours 10-5 (during year ends - 9 am to-9 pm), 6 days, 6th day being a half day.

Have brothers working in IT industry - work 8-10 hours on an avg. (5 days a week)

I have numerous family members in the IT industry, in medical practice and working for the Birlas. its atleast 8 hours a week officially, with on average 2 hours a day usually added on for over-time. Numerous people i know work for IBM or HP and they pull 6 days a week 8am-6pm jobs.
If life in the west wasnt easier, people wouldnt be immigrating to the west- they would be immigrating to the east.
The west works the least and gets paid the most for their troubles. Rest of the world works far harder and make far less than the west does. I could give you a discourse on why that is, starting with the base principles of capitalism and entreprenuership and the foundation block of capitalism with the generation of the hard capital, but that would be plumbing the depths of economics and far OT.
All i can do is point to Dr. Amartya Sen's nobel-prize winning work on economics and his underlining comments in that piece.

 

[Sanz]

In that case, you are in the small minority. The average Indian spends over an hour getting to the job or back. I spent 1.5 hours in the bus every morning going to my highschool(i lived in Kolkata) and i've found the same commute times when i visited Delhi a few times over the summer.
As per bunking school not being a big deal - it is a far bigger deal there than in the west. You dont get expelled from school that easily in the west. In India you can be expelled for a host of reasons, beginning with simply not doing your homework consistently.
As per having 100-200 bucks handy to go watch a day's worth of cricket, you are speaking for at most 5% of Indian students- most students dont have much more than the bus fares in their pockets.Life in India is far harder than in the west, which is why you have millions of Indians immigrating to the west but hardly any westerner immigrating to India.

Unless your school is in the other part of town it will never take 1.5 hour to go to school Irony is that I lived in Delhi for close to 5 years, almost 3-4 years in Mumbai and I was born and brought up in the eastern part of the country and it never took me 1.5 hours to go to school, work, college etc on a normal day.

Rest of you claims are debateble. It is far easier to bunk school/colleges in India than over here in US. Consider this, In my 3 years of college I didn't attend class for close to 2 years, yet got my degree without any problems. I come from an ordinary middle class family and so were most of my friends and we could always go and watch a Cricket Game @ Keenan (Jamshedpur), money, time

 

[Sanz]

16-5 overall. Pretty one-sided.

As I said check the stats for mid to late 90s.

home umpires were more pro-home team in the OZ and ENG than in IND or PAK. several independent cricketers ( predominantly west indian ones- who are neutral to this whole perspective) have claimed so. I will take their word for it rather than perceptions fostered through the media.

Its not perception, its years of cricket I followed listening to Radio commentry.

 

[C_C]

As I said check the stats for mid to late 90s.




Its not perception, its years of cricket I followed listening to Radio commentry.

So i guess Viv, Holding, Sobers, etc. were lying when they commented on the OZ/ENG umpires being the most biassed of the lot....mmm.okay!

PS: Mid-late 90s were 3-1, 3-2 and 3-1 scores. Aggregate of 9-4 to OZ. The one series where the scorecard was 3-2 was a 6-test series, with ENG winning the dead rubber.
hardly competetive.

 

[luckyeddie]

(Deep intake of breath).

All I was asking is why didn't people show up for the first day of the test between Pakistan and India but will invariably do so for one-dayers - and not only that, thousands turned up for the tests against England (until Afridi was out, when they all promptly remembered they'd left the gas on back home)?

Please don't reply I you can't do so without mentioning the average time it takes for a train to travel from Agra to Delhi, the annual rainfall in Karachi, the number of stripes on a Bengal tiger or anything else unrelated to the question.

 

[C_C]

Unless your school is in the other part of town it will never take 1.5 hour to go to school Irony is that I lived in Delhi for close to 5 years, almost 3-4 years in Mumbai and I was born and brought up in the eastern part of the country and it never took me 1.5 hours to go to school, work, college etc on a normal day.

Rest of you claims are debateble. It is far easier to bunk school/colleges in India than over here in US. Consider this, In my 3 years of college I didn't attend class for close to 2 years, yet got my degree without any problems. I come from an ordinary middle class family and so were most of my friends and we could always go and watch a Cricket Game @ Keenan (Jamshedpur), money, time

Umm. Does the words 'traffic jam and abyssmal road conditions' mean anything to you ?
Kolkata is a city of over 12 million people, not counting the other side of the hoogly river. Count the other side and you have close to 16 million people. The two sides are connected by 3 bridges in total, the third one opening just a few years ago. Awesome fast-flowing traffic, innit ?

As per bunking school- i find your claims to be completely untrue from my experience and experience of every single Indian dude i've talked to. Atleast in highschool, you get the boot if you miss 10-15 days of the calendar year without medical/family excuse.
In the states all you get is a whiny teacher whining to your parents.
I have plenty of free time here and i work 30 hrs a week plus pull 4 courses a sem. Couldnt do that in India or i wouldnt have time to take a dump.

Like i said, your argument is undermined by one central fact- immigration occurs from India to the west, not the other way round. And immigration always occurs ( unless it is politically motivated or violence-incited) due to better financial incentives and easier lifestyles.

 

[Sanz]

I have numerous family members in the IT industry, in medical practice and working for the Birlas. its atleast 8 hours a week officially, with on average 2 hours a day usually added on for over-time. Numerous people i know work for IBM or HP and they pull 6 days a week 8am-6pm jobs.
If life in the west wasnt easier, people wouldnt be immigrating to the west- they would be immigrating to the east.
The west works the least and gets paid the most for their troubles. Rest of the world works far harder and make far less than the west does. I could give you a discourse on why that is, starting with the base principles of capitalism and entreprenuership and the foundation block of capitalism with the generation of the hard capital, but that would be plumbing the depths of economics and far OT.
All i can do is point to Dr. Amartya Sen's nobel-prize winning work on economics and his underlining comments in that piece.

Since you are so fond of percentages, can you tell us the % of Indians working for companies like IBM ? That said, Ironically my own brother-in-law works for IBM Pune, Since IBM pays him pretty well, he bought a house close to work and his commute time is <10 minutes. He does work 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week, has very flexible hours, and his hours include work from home time. He does make trips to US once in a while, but doesn't want to stay here and is willing to visit US only until he pays of his mortgage.

Most Indians come to US or west for $$$ not for the lifestyle. If you have $$$$ you can get a better lifestyle in India.As for Amrtya Sen's work, I dont have time or interest and neither do I think there is any relevance here in this discussion.

 

[C_C]

(Deep intake of breath).

All I was asking is why didn't people show up for the first day of the test between Pakistan and India but will invariably do so for one-dayers - and not only that, thousands turned up for the tests against England (until Afridi was out, when they all promptly remembered they'd left the gas on back home)?

Please don't reply I you can't do so without mentioning the average time it takes for a train to travel from Agra to Delhi, the annual rainfall in Karachi, the number of stripes on a Bengal tiger or anything else unrelated to the question.

Because people will take the time out from their jobs,schools, etc., sink 100-200 rupees for a ticket if there is a great spectacle at hand. People used to come and watch Tendulkar bat in his pomp. Afridi has the flair and if he clicks, its gonna be an insanely entertaining mayhem, so people come. But there is simply no point in comming for a day when the result is not gonna be decieded in a day. Its much easier and convinient to catch the action in bits and pieces over the course of the game unless something magnificient is happening. That is the subcontinental mentality towards test cricket. Doesnt mean it isnt popular- all it means is people would rather sit around a radio at the local restaurant during the lunchbreak following the action, peeking at the tv 10-15 times a day in small timeslots than sink an entire day watching a contest that wont be decieded.

 

[C_C]

Since you are so fond of percentages, can you tell us the % of Indians working for companies like IBM ? That said, Ironically my own brother-in-law works for IBM Pune, Since IBM pays him pretty well, he bought a house close to work and his commute time is <10 minutes. He does work 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week, has very flexible hours, and his hours include work from home time. He does make trips to US once in a while, but doesn't want to stay here and is willing to visit US only until he pays of his mortgage.

Most Indians come to US or west for $$$ not for the lifestyle. If you have $$$$ you can get a better lifestyle in India.As for Amrtya Sen's work, I dont have time or interest and neither do I think there is any relevance here in this discussion.

Interesting. My cousin and a very good friend of mine work for IBM pune ( and a few others i know work for HP in Bangalore) and they spend 45 min getting to and from work, working 50-60 hours a week trying to meet the deadline.
Indians come to the US because of the $$$ and the $$$ automatically translates to better lifestyle, since money buys you ammenities. i dont think you will get many offers for a job that works you 6am to 8pm everyday of the week for 10 years straight even if you promise them a million bucks.
As for Amartya Sen's work, its a pity that you dismiss it without even reading it, particularly since it talks a lot about subcontinental economies (along with economies around the world) and its impact on social life ( and cricket is a part of social life).
People on average also work longer hours in the subcontinent for far lesser amenities. Lets see- 40 hours a week for enough money to buy you a house, car, go on yearly vacations, have 22 inch plasmatron tv, play games, socialise, etc. or 40 hours a week for enough money to take the bus everyday, buy food and clothing for your wife and children and hoping like hell it doesnt rain for you dont like skipping around puddles. Yes, very comparable lifestyles and the former is 'harder'(sic)

 

[Sanz]

So i guess Viv, Holding, Sobers, etc. were lying when they commented on the OZ/ENG umpires being the most biassed of the lot....mmm.okay!
.

I have seen you say that again and again in your posts..care to point out any link to all that or is it again from some smart@$$ book you read which is not available to anyone else in the world ?

 

[C_C]

I have seen you say that again and again in your posts..care to point out any link to all that or is it again from some smart@$$ book you read which is not available to anyone else in the world ?

Read their biographies/autobiographies and do the search online yourself. Like i said million times before, i am not here to spoonfeed others. Dismiss my claims if you wish to or verify them if you wish to. Has absolutely no relevance to me. My objective is to inform you, not indoctrinate you.

 

[Sanz]

Umm. Does the words 'traffic jam and abyssmal road conditions' mean anything to you ?
Kolkata is a city of over 12 million people, not counting the other side of the hoogly river. Count the other side and you have close to 16 million people. The two sides are connected by 3 bridges in total, the third one opening just a few years ago. Awesome fast-flowing traffic, innit ?

??? There are Ferries, buses, trams, trains, metros in kolkata, not awesome fast but hardly 1.5 hour each way on a normal day. Yes despite the traffic jam and abyssmal road conditions it isn't that bad unless you travel from one end to another end.

As per bunking school- i find your claims to be completely untrue from my experience and experience of every single Indian dude i've talked to. Atleast in highschool, you get the boot if you miss 10-15 days of the calendar year without medical/family excuse.

Jjesus why would you take 10-15 days of of the calendar year to watch a day of test cricket.

Like i said, your argument is undermined by one central fact- immigration occurs from India to the west, not the other way round. And immigration always occurs ( unless it is politically motivated or violence-incited) due to better financial incentives and easier lifestyles.

As I said, if you have $$$ Lifestyle is a lot easier in India than in USA or WEST. If I didn't have to support my family back home, I would go back before I can blink. When I go to India on vaccation, I dont need to do my laundry, I dont need to drive my car, dont need to cook..dont press my cloths, dont need to do grossary..Life in USA sucks..

 

[C_C]

??? There are Ferries, buses, trams, trains, metros in kolkata, not awesome fast but hardly 1.5 hour each way on a normal day. Yes despite the traffic jam and abyssmal road conditions it isn't that bad unless you travel from one end to another end.

Trains ?! There is only one trainline that crosses the hoogly for local service. And those trains are packed tighter than a virgin in the morning hours...Ferries ? You got any ideas how many ferries capsise per month in Kolkata-Alipur area ? I am sorry but transportation in India is much slower universally than in the west, unless you live in New Delhi or Chandigarh. For same distance travelled, it takes longer in India.

Jjesus why would you take 10-15 days of of the calendar year to watch a day of test cricket.

Just an example. Bunk 10-15 days outta the calendar year in highschool in India and you get tossed outta it. Bunk 10-15 days in America and your parents get a note urging them to talk to the school teacher.

As I said, if you have $$$ Lifestyle is a lot easier in India than in USA or WEST. If I didn't have to support my family back home, I would go back before I can blink. When I go to India on vaccation, I dont need to do my laundry, I dont need to drive my car, dont need to cook..dont press my cloths, dont need to do grossary..Life in USA sucks..

And $$$ boils down to lifestyle. buck for buck its harder to live in India than in the west. Yes, your mom and sisters might do laundry for you or you might have a maid to do it but that is precisely what i am talking about - giving your laundry to the maid and stuffing em in the laundry downstairs is hardly definitive of any effort but the very fact that there are maids in India to do such menial jobs is testament to the hardship of life there. And unless you are talking about the TATAs or the BIRLAs, life in India is harder for equal level jobs in the west. An engineer in the west lives in far more comfort than in India. Simply because they have more disposable income and disposable income means you can have fun with that money. Same is true for almost every single profession. Yes, if you had 200K dollars in the bank you would be living like a millionaire in India but then again, the millionaires in India live a lot more frugally than the millionaires in the west. You have to compare across the same job strata and see the disposable income along with spare time allocated for luxurious persuits. Comparing how one would live in India if they had a US salary is irrelevant because that is not the point- point is a doctor in the US lives far easier than a doctor in India.

 

[Sanz]

Interesting. My cousin and a very good friend of mine work for IBM pune ( and a few others i know work for HP in Bangalore) and they spend 45 min getting to and from work, working 50-60 hours a week trying to meet the deadline.

Well it may be right for your friend and cousin, but as Eddie said, dont make gross generalization based on your limited interaction and (as you would prefer to say) very very tiny SAMPLE.

[quoteIndians come to the US because of the $$$ and the $$$ automatically translates to better lifestyle, since money buys you ammenities.[/quote]

Most IT folks(those are the one who come to west) in India can afford all those amenities in INDIA, and except for electricity which doesn't require $$$$.

i dont think you will get many offers for a job that works you 6am to 8pm everyday of the week for 10 years straight even if you promise them a million bucks.

It's a misconception we do work 7:30-8 until 5:30-6 and only 8 hours as billable (and I work for top 4), most folks in my firm work that way...My friends in IBM consulting travel every week, leave on Monday, come back on thursday night, work from home on Friday.