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New Zealand Off Season 2014

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Thanks for the insight. :p
Haha, ****, I'm really full of other ideas huh?

In their Facebook post they said international player, rather than NZ player so maybe he's foreign. Perhaps someone English coming over? What's Matthew Maynard up to these days?
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Ryder playing as a bowling all-rounder for Essex i see. Fly him down to WI in time for the next test!
I still remember that ground breaking Adam Parore article that went to press the day Ryder got selected.
"He's fat"
"Poor old Lou Vincent, he's as fit as a flea and can't get selected."

Probably just as well looking back on it.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
If we introduce the duke ball to the shield, hilarity will ensue. Dibbly dobblies like Ryder will make their return as serious threats, and the Andy Ellis/KNB/CdG h4x might break the meter.
They actually offer the national boards a custom design to suit their playing conditions, itbt -

The Duke balls to be used have slightly different properties from those used in England.

They are brighter but have a less pronounced seam. The lacquer tends to be rubbed off quicker by the abrasive surfaces, bringing reverse swing into play far earlier than in other climes.

Wagner has been training with the balls to be used in the Caribbean.

"With the heat and humidity, you get a lot of sweat on your hands and have to try to keep the ball dry. [In 2012] we were experimenting, whereas now it's not something we'll be coming across for the first time," he said.
Yeah, NZC to cut a cowardly path away from that hearty dark red English ball. It'll be a light and bright red one, with a meek and modest seam.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yup, and there it is, made all the more remarkable by the fact that it didn't seem to be that bad of a pitch. Now if only he could score some runs.
 

Flem274*

123/5
County cricket is so weird.

I cbf doing any work and dunno where to put this prediction. Here will do.

NZ ATG XI when Kane retires

Turner
Sutcliffe
Williamson
Crowe
Taylor, R.
Reid
Watling
Bond/Cowie/Vettori/Cairns/Taylor, B. (take your pick)
Hadlee
Southee
Boult

Getting my prediction in early. Ross is already a lock. If KW maintains his post SL performance he's going to break a lot of our records due to how young he started (30 odd tests to his name at 23/24). Boult is on track to pass Collinge's wicket tally at a better average, making him our best left armer and Southee is in the Williamson boat.

Watling is my bravest prediction but I judge McCullum based on his time with the gloves only. Watling has already put world class performances on the board. If we're allowed to merge current McCullum's batting with his old keeping he would piss it in by a mile but that feels like cheating.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Might do a team of the greatest individual performances next. McCullum batting in that one obv.
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Latham will be there by then :ph34r:

To be honest I think Bond will remain above Boult, because an attack of Hadlee and Southee is quite same-y. Bond bowls inswing, so provides the variation of Boult, but at a much better pace and probably strike rate. He's also likely to be better as a third seamer.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Latham will be there by then :ph34r:

To be honest I think Bond will remain above Boult, because an attack of Hadlee and Southee is quite same-y. Bond bowls inswing, so provides the variation of Boult, but at a much better pace and probably strike rate. He's also likely to be better as a third seamer.
Boult benefits in a Bond comparison like Southee does, just to a lesser extent because he isn't as good as Southee. If Boult achieves what he should over a reasonable career he'll probably finish with 300-400 wickets at an average under 30. He's getting close to 100 test wickets and he's 23/24 years old atm. I'm not sure we can justify leaving a guy like that out.

Here's my ultimate heresy - Southee and Boult take the new ball. Hadlee is the best suited to first change due to his skill, intelligence and his pace plus the psychological factor of the batsmen knowing who is coming next is too good to pass up. Southee/Boult in tandem is a great combo as well. If anything, Southee gets relegated to first change before Boult does.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Boult benefits in a Bond comparison like Southee does, just to a lesser extent because he isn't as good as Southee. If Boult achieves what he should over a reasonable career he'll probably finish with 300-400 wickets at an average under 30. He's getting close to 100 test wickets and he's 23/24 years old atm. I'm not sure we can justify leaving a guy like that out.

Here's my ultimate heresy - Southee and Boult take the new ball. Hadlee is the best suited to first change due to his skill, intelligence and his pace plus the psychological factor of the batsmen knowing who is coming next is too good to pass up. Southee/Boult in tandem is a great combo as well. If anything, Southee gets relegated to first change before Boult does.
Boult is a long way off Bond's class (just like he's a long way off Southee's class), and I consider it unlikely that he'll ever be good enough to make the ATG side. I understand the concern that the attack will be too samey if you have 4 right arm fast bowlers, but it never seemed to be a problem for the 80's Windies. So I'd go for Bond and Hadlee to open with Southee coming in first change after a 4 or 5 over burst from Bond and Cowie rounding things out.

I think it's important to remember that McCullum, as a keeper-batsman, was cut off in his prime - he was just 28 when he played his last test as a keeper batsman, the same age Watling is now. McCullum averaged 40 in his last couple years in the job, and given that he NZ had a pretty tough schedule during that period (6 tests v England, 4 tests v Australia, 3 tests v peak India and 3 tests v Pakistan when they still had Aamir and Asif) that's a pretty impressive achievement. He was also a better wicket keeper than Watling as well, so I'd take McCullum over Watling.

Also, despite the disgrace he's landed himself in, I'd still take Chris Cairns over Reid.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
You could argue we never truly saw Bond's class for enough time to make a proper judgement because of his injury woes. There are gaps in his record for both countries he never toured and teams he never played or barely played which will never be filled. Boult could assemble a good record against everyone.

Same with McCullum, but to a lesser extent. He was cut down in his prime but we can only judge him based on what we know.

I'm pretty confident Bond is both more talented and skilled than Boult, and had he played a full career he would have a world class or even all time great record. Likewise if McCullum played a full career as a keeper he would make our all time side at a leisurely stroll despite the class of Smith and Parore with the gloves. McCullum's current level of batting paired with his world class glovework would be an ominous prospect.

But if you were to take a more results and longevity oriented approach, looking only at hard proof then in 20 years time I can see the likes of Bond and Cowie falling by the wayside in favour of bowlers with world class records achieved over many tests, even if those future CWers suspect Bond and Cowie might have had more to work with as pure prospects.

I guess personally I'm putting this exercise out there because I'm dubious our all time team is often dominated by guys who played sod all tests. I know for early players it was unavoidable, and Cowie played all the tests New Zealand played in his time and they spanned a significant period, but I don't like having to Barry Richards it too much. I think we sometimes launch on these mysterious players because we like the idea of them more than we like the reality of Mark Richardson or Richard Collinge, who were world class players but not stand outs even in their own era.

I'm sure Donnelly was every bit as good as Ross Taylor. He might even have been Crowe's equal, but as of the West Indies summer tour I've been picking Taylor every time. He has the talent, the skill and the record to deserve recognition ahead of a mysterious talent who was probably brilliant but simply didn't play enough.

I think if Southee, Boult or whoever put together a classy career I'll look at Cowie and Bond in the same way - genius but not with us for long enough. I do understand why people pick players with short test careers though - we don't have many options so we need to get whoever we think is the best in the team, so if the selector isn't too hung up on how complete a player's record is they're going to trust their eye more than statsguru. It's a fair method - we do it with keepers all the time - I just wonder sometimes if we're going to take it too far.

At the moment it doesn't matter because we don't have much depth in a lot of positions. Who outside Turner, Dempster, Sutcliffe, Wright and Richardson really deserves to open the batting for example? But one day it will hopefully change.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I agree with you to a large extent, but I just think there's too much of a difference in bowling abilities between Bond and Boult.

150kph inswinging yorkers, brutal bouncers that Johnson would be proud of etc. If it were close I'd always go for the more proven guy, but Bond was on another level.
 

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