New Zealand A General Discussion

[Flem274*]

That is rubbish mate. Wagner hardly stats hacked in SA or played all that long there. Has had a fair few huge domestic seasons here too.

Here's his wickets/averages.

Northerns: 17 matches, 79 wickets @ 18.11
Otago: 24 matches, 100 wickets @ 26.73

Half of his wickets for Otago came last year, and he has only played 7 more matches for Otago.

His season by season record in New Zealand reads:

2008/2009: 7 matches, 21 wickets @ 33.33
2009/2010: 8 matches, 28 wickets @ 37.39
2010/2011: 9 matches, 51 wickets @ 18.15

One awesome season and nothing else. I agree he has potential, but needs to prove he can gun it consistently imo. Andy McKay played five matches this season and picked up a truckload. Was on track to equalling Wagner's haul if he played 9/10 matches.

 

[Mike5181]

Martin Guptill smashed Bangladesh around in NZ. That is essentially the difference in their records.

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The two teams that just happen to be the worst are where Mcintosh actually managed to average greater than 21.

 

[Athlai]

It was a West Indies with Taylor in it that McIntosh scored against. Hardly that poor.

 

[Flem274*]

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The two teams that just happen to be the worst are where Mcintosh actually managed to average greater than 21.

Three teams. Br00tal call on Australia.

I don't see how the above makes him any worse than his rivals for the spot. Scores of fifty plus against every nation he's played, including a century against India in India, is better than any of his rivals have managed.

Our openers have been truly terrible for a long while now.

 

[Athlai]

Wow 50 against every team he has played is actually a surprising stat for Mc.

 

[Mike5181]

It was a West Indies with Taylor in it that McIntosh scored against. Hardly that poor.

Powell and Baker are completely dire. They were the third and fourth seamers and Fidel Edwards though i rate him has hardly been spectacular at test level and struggles to keep his bowling average below 40. It is much easier to sit on one good bowler and play the others than it is to play against a country like England, South Africa etc that have a better all round attack. Thus West Indies is easily one of the weaker bowling units with that particular line up.

 

[Flem274*]

You should have used his awesome dropped catch when he was on 36 in your argument Mike. Is one of my favourite dropped catches ever.

 

[Athlai]

Edwards post 07 was a heck of a bowler IMO. His early Test stats didn't do him any justice to where he got to at that stage of his career pre-injury.

 

[Mike5181]

Three teams. Br00tal call on Australia.

I don't see how the above makes him any worse than his rivals for the spot. Scores of fifty plus against every nation he's played, including a century against India in India, is better than any of his rivals have managed.

Our openers have been truly terrible for a long while now.

He has been playing in the test team since 2008. Three years is enough please.

 

[Flem274*]

That Napier pitch suited him too. Was skidding through at wicked pace, and the bouncers were onto the batsmen very quickly. Definitely showed who couldn't handle a short ball. Knocked Franklin over hit wicket and should have had McIntosh. Those were the days when his hook and pull were hilariously bad against anything quicker than medium fast bowling.

McIntosh has come a long way from the once a season wonder he used to be.

 

[Flem274*]

He has been playing in the test team since 2008. Three years is enough please.

Now that McCullum and Guptill are scoring runs he will be gone, but he would be my first choice backup.

 

[Mike5181]

I'm bored so i think this is where players will/can average

1.Baz- 40 (getting closer and closer)
2.Guptill- 35
3.Williamson- 44
4.Taylor- 43
5.Ryder- 45
6.Broom- 38
7.Vettori- 33
8.Boorder/Young- 32

 

[Athlai]

Do you mean at the end of their careers?

 

[vcs]

Williamson can average 50 IMO.

And Vettori already averages around 38 doesn't he? So you're saying he will drop?

 

[Mike5181]

Nah, Vettori's career average is 30. That's basically where i see them averaging at the end of their careers. I think Williamson will be around mid to high 40s. I doubt he will crack 50 tbh.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm bored so i think this is where players will/can average

1.Baz- 40 (getting closer and closer)
2.Guptill- 35
3.Williamson- 44
4.Taylor- 43
5.Ryder- 45
6.Broom- 38
7.Vettori- 33
8.Boorder/Young- 32

Big call on Broom, and Guptill will have to play against the Bangers and Zim to keep his average that high, but the others are probably all more or less good guesses.

 

[Athlai]

I really reckon Guptill could develop into a player who deserves to average 35 tbh. Don't really think he'll ever be a star but I reckon he could deserve his spot in the team for a fair few years yet.

 

[Flem274*]

Guptill could be so much better than he is, but then that's the story of his career so far.

 

[Howsie]

Graeme Aldridge, Todd Astle, Trent Boult, Doug Bracewell, Neil Broom, Dean Brownlie, Derek de Boorder, Daniel Flynn, Anaru Kitchen, Bruce Martin, Andy McKay, BJ Watling, Ben Wheeler, Brad Wilson, Luke Woodcock.

I'm still scratching my head over the selection of Luke Woodcock tbh, the selectors are nuts if they see him as a test match option. He's probably the fourth best all rounder playing for Wellington at the moment in the longer form of the game. Really can't work that one out.

Brad Wilson much the same too. He's improved a lot as a domestic batsmen over the past three seasons and obviously had a bit of a breakthrough season last year but if you just watched him bat for 15 minutes you'd see he's pretty unlikely to make the step up with such a lazy and poor technique at the international level - But I guess this is what these types of tournaments are for right?

 

[Howsie]

Williamson can average 50 IMO.

And if he can't then I doubt we see a New Zealand batsmen do it in a long bloody time.