Murali's run out and the spirit of the game.

[cameeel]

That's not quite clear, though, is it? The debate should be on the sportsmanship after running out Murali, as you had just said - whether Fleming or McCullum should have called him back.

Fair point.

 

[JF.]

It doesn't matter what the traditionalists/establishment choose to call the game, we're arguing the merits of the Murali run-out.

I'm not saying that McCullum shouldn't have whipped the bails off, but he or Fleming should at least have called Murali back - but then Fleming isn't known for his desire to keep sportsmanship in the game is he?

Again, the last part is irrelevant. The debate is on the sportsmanship of running out Murali, not on how the partnership may have gone if NZ had chosen not to run him out.

If you are going to argue on the basis of cricket being 'a gentleman's game' and the spirit of the game that goes with it - then it's very relevant because all of that was lost when the game became professional.

This whole thing about the 'gentleman's game' goes back to an era when you had 'gentleman' who were rich and you had commoners. It was a game for upper class people in England at the time it was created. I don't see how it's relevant now.

No one has given me a good reason yet as to why the rules should be applied differently simply because someone has made 100. Plenty of other batsmen have managed to avoid this situation by simply waiting until the ball was no longer live. Why are we suggesting that Fleming should have rewarded Murali for being stupid enough to wander out of his crease when the ball hadn't even got back to the keeper yet? Why are we trying to apply 1920 values to what was an amateur sport for the genteel in an era when it's big business and fully professional?

I see nothing wrong with a professional cricketer doing precisely what he is being paid for. Attempting to win a game of cricket.

 

[archie mac]

Is it? How many other acts of bad sportsmanship were in the test?

I don't know, how many acts of good sportsmanship were there?

 

[dinu23]

a similar thing happend in the champions trophy in the match between NZ and SL. when Astle was at the crease he took a run and was out of the crease when the ball was thrown back to sanga from the outfield, and sanga told astle to get back or he'll be runout.

 

[shortpitched713]

Then we are going to have to agree to disagree. The rule is there for a reason and it doesn't change whether someone is going to pick up a tissue, do some gardening, fix his box, play with himself, get 100, have ***, or anything else he can think of.

To me the bottom line is that Murali stuffed up and got penalised for it. End of story.

What an evil, evil cretin. Obviously you've never played cricket in 19th century England. Makes me feel sorry for your whole generation that will never understand the genteel values that we've honored for hundreds of years...

 

[shortpitched713]

a similar thing happend in the champions trophy in the match between NZ and SL. when Astle was at the crease he took a run and was out of the crease when the ball was thrown back to sanga from the outfield, and sanga told astle to get back or he'll be runout.

Astle didn't remember that incident, so it never happened.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm sure its mentioned, but I have no problem with it. If the ball was thrown from the deep and the keeper missed it, I'm sure they would have had no problems taking overthrows. If anything, Murali was getting a 2m head start on a possible run.

while his non-striker was busy celebrating his hundred........



wonderful logic, mate. Obviously, Murali was going for the second run and was run out. And obviously, the Kiwi batsman wasn't good enough to hit an under arm ball for six. So that's ok too.

 

[NZTailender]

I don't know, how many acts of good sportsmanship were there?

I don't know. How many acts of good sportsmanship happen in every test?

 

[honestbharani]

Seems a bit weird that people are standing up for him, I don't know who Murali thinks he is, but cricketing protocol demands that you don't wander out of your crease while the ball is being collected by an outfielder.. Even an under 7 cricketer knows that..

I'd have waited for him to return from congratulating Sangakkara and would have ran him out just before he got back to the crease, get the third umpire involved and make it even more fun..

yep, almost as fun as when Kapil ran out Kirsten, right. That got your then skipper so enraged that he actually hit Kapil with the bat.

 

[honestbharani]

Guy got run out for being stupid - hey it happens. I'm not gonna pull the 'tisk tisk' bullcrap on NZ. Good on 'em. They're playing to win, not to socialise.

*prepares as C_C goes on some random and extreme example to hold a point*

surely then, it ceases to become SPORT, if you can't be sporting. If winning is everything, then there is something wrong in that person's head more than anything else.

 

[marc71178]

I'm not saying that McCullum shouldn't have whipped the bails off, but he or Fleming should at least have called Murali back - but then Fleming isn't known for his desire to keep sportsmanship in the game is he?

Why should they have done?

Murali made a mistake and should pay for it.

Flintoff made a mistake chasing a wide one and edging to slip the other day - why didn't Ricky call him back?

 

[honestbharani]

Example?

just the way they systematically sledged Smith and threw him off his wits end (fleming himself admitted that) and some of the statements he made against INdia in 2003 before the WC and the way they generally play these days. Not really surprised that being sporting doesn't figure high on their list.

 

[marc71178]

Astle didn't remember that incident, so it never happened.

No mention of it on the commentary of the game either...

 

[shortpitched713]

Tbf, thats something that could very easily have been left out of the commentary, as it took place away from the ball, and maybe away from the main camera as well.

 

[archie mac]

I don't know. How many acts of good sportsmanship happen in every test?

I don't know, how many acts of bad sportsmanship happen in every Test?

 

[marc71178]

If it was such a major sporting incident, it'd surely have got a mention.

Does seem strange that Astle has no recollection of it happening as well.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't understand why people are still going on about this (ok..so I am too :P). If Murali had wandered out of his crease for any other reason than to congratulate Sanga, no one would have batted an eyelid. They would have just said how stupid he was. So why does Sanga's 100 suddenly make a difference? As Fleming said, the game doesn't stop because someone makes 100.

The fact is Murali went walkabout while the ball was still live and the fielding side did exactly what professionals SHOULD do. They ran him out.

This is not backyard cricket or a friendly game between kids in the street. This sort of thing would happen in under 12s. It certainly happened when I played low-grade women's cricket. And no one whinges when it does.

These are highly paid professional cricketers doing what highly paid professional cricketers are supposed to be doing! Winning games of cricket according to the rules!

The gentleman's game disappeared in 32/33 when Bodyline occurred and we've had any number of incidents - previously cited on this thread - since then. The game is professional now and there is big money involved. Get over all this mumbo jumbo about spirit of the game. It died 70 years ago!!!!!!!

BTW - I'm an Aussie and I believe that the underarm was a disgrace.

yeah, but the point is, he DID run across only to congratulate his team mate on a hundred. Don't think it is too much to expect a bit of class and courtesy in sports.

 

[shortpitched713]

If it was such a major sporting incident, it'd surely have got a mention.

Does seem strange that Astle has no recollection of it happening as well.

Sanga never says it was a major incident though, just something that happened. Would explain why Astle wouldn't remember it, as he probably didn't take much heed of it at the time.

 

[NZTailender]

yeah, but the point is, he DID run across only to congratulate his team mate on a hundred. Don't think it is too much to expect a bit of class and courtesy in sports.

Then he shouldn't have been complacent and waited for the ball to be returned to the keeper, ffs.

 

[honestbharani]

If it was such a major sporting incident, it'd surely have got a mention.

Does seem strange that Astle has no recollection of it happening as well.

These incidents only get a mention when the unsporting thing is done, not when the sporting thing is done, unless it is done by an Aussie.


They are the ones who play the game the hardest and when they do sporting things (and they do a number of times, to be fair) it always gets highlighted, esp. in the Indian media. For eg., the catch that Clarke didn't claim etc.