Murali/Sanga vs Ambrose/Lara

[Migara]

Lee is the quickest

Not erratic though. Tait would be the example

 

[sayon basak]

Anybody who rates Flower ahead of Gilchrist as a wicketkeeper-batsman cannot be taken seriously imo.

 

[DrWolverine]

Andy Flower is the best batsman while keeping.

You can fault him for his keeping but it is a shame if you don’t give credit for his batting.

 

[Johan]

I don't think anybody has that opinion, only De Villiers and Walcott I think are better batsmen than Flower who can keep.

 

[sayon basak]

Andy Flower is the best batsman while keeping.

You can fault him for his keeping but it is a shame if you don’t give credit for his batting.

Flower might be the best batter while keeping (if ABD and Walcott are left out), but he isn't the best wicketkeeper-batsman ever. It is a shame if you think that keeping isn't all that important.

 

[DrWolverine]

Only De Villiers and Walcott I think are better batsmen than Flower who can keep.

Fair

 

[Migara]

What are you saying man?

Batting averages

Andy : 55 Tests. Avg of 53.7
Gilly : 96 Tests. Avg of 47.6
Sanga : 48 Tests. Avg of 40.4

Issue with this aargument is that then you have to treat Sanga as a pure bat who is averaging 65 too. Then only Bradman and Sobers would be ahead of him in that department. You cannot choose part of the argument that suits and discard the rest that doesn't.

 

[Coronis]

Walcott has a good shout, I don't think his keeping being gone necessarily improved his batting but he naturally reached a level he would've reached anyway, better with the bat than Flower and an excellent keeper.

You can somewhat make this argument re: Sanga too. iirc his ODI batting also improved markedly whilst he still held the gloves there

 

[Migara]

Flower might be the best batter while keeping (if ABD and Walcott are left out), but he isn't the best wicketkeeper-batsman ever. It is a shame if you think that keeping isn't all that important.

Walcott also average 41 IIRc

 

[DrWolverine]

It is a shame if you think that keeping is'nt all that important.

I never said that.

I have even said I can understand if someone wants to pick Alan Knott in an ATG team.

Flower might be the best batter while keeping (if ABD and Walcott are left out).

Walcott kept in 15 out of 44 Tests.
ABD kept in 24 out of 112 Tests.

That’s why I said Andy is the best bat while keeping

 

[Johan]

You can somewhat make this argument re: Sanga too. iirc his ODI batting also improved markedly whilst he still held the gloves there

Yeah, truth to that.

 

[Coronis]

I never said that.

You implied it though, by choosing Flower over Gilchrist. I mean the position itself “wicketkeeper batsman” indicates wicketkeeping is the more important factor. Whereas by picking Flower you imply the opposite.

 

[Migara]

Murali>> Ambrose
Lara>>>> Sanga

So lara and Ambrose wins by a small margin.

Murali and Ambrose are there and there abouts. Sanga is better player than Lara because he is an elite all rounder (keeper bat). Lara may be a tad better with the bat, but effect of the top class glove work and captaincy (which Lara sucked at) easily overshadows that gap.

 

[Migara]

Ambrose > Muralitharan
Lara > Sanga

Nah

 

[Coronis]

Continuing off topic but on the different Walcott topic of height… one of my favourite tall players of yesteryear has some impressive anecdotes.

That being George Bonnor ar 6’6. Has claims of 130m throw according to WG, they had a big throwing contest apparently. Claimed to have hit a ball 155m.

But possibly the most famous claim is that he once hit a ball so high that he and his partner were in the process of their third run before E.M Grace caught the ball. Wondering if someone could tell me how long the ball must have been in the air for this, and whether its even possible.

 

[subshakerz]

Murali>Ambrose by a small margin and i think it's a slightly larger gap if it's for an average team. A top tier spinner can bowl basically half the overs for an average bowling lineup and elevate the quality of the attack's overall potency more than a pacer can imo.

Agreed. Also Sanga might take WK duties too occasionally. This is why we can't just vote based on rankings.

 

[Johan]

Continuing off topic but on the different Walcott topic of height… one of my favourite tall players of yesteryear has some impressive anecdotes..

how tall was Hammond

 

[Coronis]

how tall was Hammond

I tried looking that up a little while ago and could find zero references to his height anywhere.



Bradman was either 170 or 173 cm (5’7 or 5’8) - varying sources.

 

[Johan]

I tried looking that up a little while ago and could find zero references to his height anywhere.

View attachment 46482

Bradman was either 170 or 173 cm (5’7 or 5’8) - varying sources.

Damn, Walter haa to be like 6'1 or smth, He towers over the Don

 

[Coronis]

Damn, Walter haa to be like 6'1 or smth, He towers over the Don
View attachment 46483

Yeah I’m not good at doing relative heights so couldn’t tell ya. Maybe we should ask AI.