Murali bowling with a astraight arm

[dude]

it was noted somewhere in cricinfo that the writer was actually there as opposed to viewing the optical illusion created on a TV screen.

we have heard experts say that the brace would not let him straighten his arm, so there for any straightening you would see in that excersize is an illusion. however i didnt understand which angles you reffer to?

"Simon Hughes, who clearly showed a huge difference between the angle in his arm at the start of the delivery which wasn't there when he released the ball)"

 

[Swervy]

as was mentioned after the film was shown, you need to see the arm from a number of different angles to gather whether the arm did actually straighten...from side on it did look like the arm straighten slightly, but you need to take into consideration the fact that the arm actually twists from the shoulder,and so from a side angle gives the impression of straightening, but if other angles are considered the arm may well not be straightening at all.

I am still of the opinion that his action is ok

 

[marc71178]

Oh I see, so now the TV is producing optical illusions?

The difference in angle I am talking about is between the with brace and the without brace at the start of the delivery.

To the naked eye it would be impossible to see owing to things such as arm speed.

When the ball was released, the arm was the same angle in both cases, but not when the delivery action started.

 

[Swervy]

i dont think this will ever be fully resolved

 

[dude]

Oh I see, so now the TV is producing optical illusions?

The difference in angle I am talking about is between the with brace and the without brace at the start of the delivery.

To the naked eye it would be impossible to see owing to things such as arm speed.

When the ball was released, the arm was the same angle in both cases, but not when the delivery action started.

so now your saying his delivery action deffers with and without the brace on? for one what difference does it make if he performs ballet on his way to the wicket mate? the point of the documentary was to prove that he could not straighten his arm.
have you thought about the possibilty that the brace weighs alot so there is pressure on his arm whilst runnding to the bowling crease?

 

[biased indian]

i dont think this will ever be fully resolved

i dont think there is anything to resolve

 

[Swervy]

i dont think there is anything to resolve

erm...yeah in my opinion you are right

 

[dude]

Oh I see, so now the TV is producing optical illusions?

oh also one more thing marc the defenition of an illusion is , An erroneous perception of reality. it does not matter if you see it on TV or in real life, The human brain will process the same image no matter what source, be it TV or real life.

 

[marc71178]

so now your saying his delivery action deffers with and without the brace on? for one what difference does it make if he performs ballet on his way to the wicket mate? the point of the documentary was to prove that he could not straighten his arm.

And all it did was show that between the start of his delivery and the release of the ball his arm does straighten when the brace was not on.

Have you even seen it?

 

[marc71178]

oh also one more thing marc the defenition of an illusion is , An erroneous perception of reality. it does not matter if you see it on TV or in real life, The human brain will process the same image no matter what source, be it TV or real life.

So you seriously think that watching it real time the bloke could see everything in the action?

If that is so, then why do they bother with all the analysing of the action, since the naked eye is just as good?

There is no way on Earth you could tell the difference in straightness of the arm between the with brace and without brace with the naked eye.

 

[dude]

so your saying at the top of his bowling mark his arm was bent and by the time he go to the point of delivery it was straight?

no i have not seen the video but i have seen murali's arm and held it in my own hands, have you?

 

[marc71178]

No, I'm saying at the start of his action it is far more bent than at release.

And it doesn't matter if I've seen his arm or held it in my hands - that would prove absolutely nothing.

 

[dude]

So you seriously think that watching it real time the bloke could see everything in the action?

If that is so, then why do they bother with all the analysing of the action, since the naked eye is just as good?

There is no way on Earth you could tell the difference in straightness of the arm between the with brace and without brace with the naked eye.

marc bro your loosing the plot here mate. the reason so much of analysis has been done is because this is a rare case, no human has seen this scenario before. therefore to anaylise it it has to be researched, fair enough.
what im tryin to get across to you is the main reason they are going through all this(slow motion capture,the all-new 2,000 frames per second 4-Sight camera) is becuase murali requested them to do so to prove that he does not chuck.
the optical illusion arguement is that because he gets alot of wrist rotation and drop in his shoulders at the point of delivery, when you concentrate on one point(his elbow) it clearly looks like a jerk or a straightening, that my friend is an optical illusion, regardless if you see it on TV or in real life that 3D image will always appear as a chuck because of the illusion created. the only way to prove it is to put a brace on so the arm so the arm does not straigten and yet it looks a chuck(looks like he straightyens his arm with the brace on, a brace with iron rods to prevent straightening.), so that proves without doubt it indeed is an illusion.

 

[dude]

And it doesn't matter if I've seen his arm or held it in my hands - that would prove absolutely nothing.

proves as much as me having seen that video from channel4 mate. i've tried to straigten his arm once over a game of pool and it is bent..it is bent. there's nothing anyone can do to straighten it not even him, many know this even bruce yardley has tried thats the reason yardley goes on a limb and states "i will defend this man to my dying day"

 

[marc71178]

what im tryin to get across to you is the main reason they are going through all this(slow motion capture,the all-new 2,000 frames per second 4-Sight camera) is becuase murali requested them to do so to prove that he does not chuck.

Well he's failed then, as it only shows evidence to the contrary from watching it (and I would like to point out that before watching it I had no doubt his action was legal)

the only way to prove it is to put a brace on so the arm does not straigten and yet it looks a chuck, so that proves without doubt it indeed is an illusion.

Yes, but the problem is, without the brace his arm does straighten, and that film has only emphasised that fact because the stiffness of the brace enabled a direct comparison between his locked straight arm and his unhindered arm.

 

[dude]

the only way to prove it is to put a brace on so the arm so the arm does not straigten and yet it looks a chuck(looks like he straightyens his arm with the brace on, a brace with iron rods to prevent straightening.), so that proves without doubt it indeed is an illusion.

 

[marc71178]

proves as much as me having seen that video from channel4 mate. i've tried to straigten his arm once over a game of pool and it is bent..it is bent. there's nothing anyone can do to straighten it not even him,

Yes, if it is at it's full extension it cannot be straightened further, BUT when it is not "fully locked" for want of a better expression, it can obviously be straightened, and that is where the problem is - at the start of his deliveries on that video (which he said was him bowling normally to stop the dissenters moaning about his action) his arm was not "fully locked" and therefore it can be straightened, and it is straightened.

 

[marc71178]

the only way to prove it is to put a brace on so the arm so the arm does not straigten and yet it looks a chuck(looks like he straightyens his arm with the brace on, a brace with iron rods to prevent straightening.), so that proves without doubt it indeed is an illusion.

You don't get the point - his arm was forced to be straight with the brace on, and it remained at the same angle throughout because of that.

His arm was nowhere near the same straightness at the start of the action when the brace wasn't on the arm.

 

[dude]

were going around in circles here. people can watch a documentary and come up with their own conclusions.
the FACTS are that with the brace no human has the strenght to straighten his arm. even with the brace on his arm looked like it straighten, key word "looked like". if he indeed managed to straighten his arm with the brace on he sure is the greatest magician.

 

[marc71178]

No, these FACTS that you claim are not the facts (and seeing as you didn't even see it, you cannot claim to know the outcome of it!)

With the brace on his arm remained the same throughout the delivery - it didn't look like a chuck.