Most Overrated Player?

[Rich2001]

FIRST-CLASS
(1992 - 2001)

M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
125 217 14 7185 208* 35.39 16 30 185 0

Not bad for a one season wonder.

From a selfish point of view i hope he doesn't get picked as he will be with Kent all season and he can continue with his good form where he is repected for what he has done for us and hopefully he will help us to regain the NUL title and improve on our 3rd place in the CC.


[Edited on 4/3/02 by Rich2001]

 

[marc71178]

His average pre-2001 season was under 30.

His averages for seasons 98, 99, 2000 are:

98: 31.70
99: 26.74
00: 22.26

Then he has 1 good season - so yes, I think you'll find he has only had 1 good season.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The point is that he was playing as well, and consistently well as anyone else in the country, if not better.

And regarding the 38 off 199 balls mentioned earlier... England really could have done with someone to occupy the crease like that at Eden Park, couldn't they?

 

[marc71178]

I'm not denying he had a good season, and had he been 5 years younger I think he'd be in with a shout, but for me consistency is more than 1 season.

 

[Neil Pickup]

So are Butcher's repeated low test scores consistent enough for you?

His average is lower than Vaughan's, whose average is in turn lower than Hick's, whose is lower Crawley's.

And Vaughan averages 23 as an opener. The 53 in India was made up of 11, 31* and 64.

 

[marc71178]

Since his recall, Butcher has scored 847 runs at an average of 42.35 - hardly consistently low.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Michael Vaughan averaged 21.83 in New Zealand. Against a weak New Zealand attack this is not in the least bit encouraging as an opener.

Mark Ramprakash averaged 15.40. Which is appalling. He's had 92 innings and still averages only 27. If this isn't conclusive that he is not right for England, I don't know what is. But he plays for Surrey...

In 73 innings, Mark Butcher has 21 0-9s, 15 10-19s, and 10 20-29s. That's 46/73 times he has failed. Not quite as bad as Ramprakash..

People have said how brilliant he's been of late. Yet he only just out-averaged Trescothick in New Zealand who had a bad time of things.

 

[marc71178]

But like I say, since Butcher refined his batting slightly, he's come back with a very healthy average.

I agree Ramprakash has probably had one chance too many now though.

 

[Neil Pickup]

28 against NZ...

Not good enough. At least Ramprakash hasn't got a central contract now.

And I hope he never plays for England again!

 

[marc71178]

Yet, as you just said, 3 of the England top 6 averaged less than him, and I'm sure you're not going to advocate dropping Banger are you?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Excuse my ignorance but who's Banger ?!

 

[Rich2001]

Trescothick

 

[Neil Pickup]

Thought so.

No, because Trescothick has already proven himself to be test class. Butcher on the other hand, hasn't.

So... now that Ramprakash is never going to play for England ever ever ever again, how about moving Vaughan down to five or six and letting Fulton open ?

 

[marc71178]

Too old, as I keep stressing - if he were 5 years younger I'd agree, but more likely you'll find Bell come in to the number 6 role. BTW, he made a storming start to his season today didn't he?

 

[Rich2001]

Now who's quick to judge? at least me and Neil based our argument on a whole season's performance. That's one innings he be back with a big score soon. I was at the ground today and any opener will have a tough task to face the new ball on an overcast and windy day. Also this isn't ment as an excuse but rain stopped play the same ball as Fulton got out and it was raining for the pervious 3-4 ball before so it wasn't ideal conditions to be playing in. But once the sun came out we soon showed them how to play

 

[marc71178]

It wasn't meant to be a post that once and for all proves he's no good, but if he averages over 50 this season, I'd be very surprised.

 

[Neil Pickup]

We will see.

 

[Anon2]

Butcher is consistent. He's consistently rubbish!!!!

 

[Kimbo]

Shane Bond isn't over rated.
Ian Butler - worst player to ever represent NZ (and that ses something)
Most overrated player would be Stephen Fleming... I was trying to think of someone from another country but couldn't.
I agree about Ganguly too.
I think James Foster is a bit crap too. Shoddy with the gloves and nothing special with the bat.

 

[Andy Flower]

in my opinion shane warne. he got in Wisdens top 5 eva and there are currently 3 better spin bowlers in the world. His bowling average is about 26 and thats nothing special. Murilidaren, Saqlain and Harbujan are much better.