Messi v Cristiano

[grecian]

Messi then, glad that's been settled.

I'll now try to get a settlement in Sachin-Lara and Warne-Murali debates.

 

[Cabinet96]

I prefer Messi. They both score insane amounts of incredible goals, but Messi is much more involved in everything else.

Ronaldo would be a better fit for almost every other team though.

Yeah this. The former is what makes the "Ronaldo is the more complete player" argument a bit weird for me though. It's literally just that he's stronger and can head the ball better. Ronaldo is immense output and final product, but Messi pretty much dictates the game with his passing and dribbling as well.

The argument about how he would fit for other teams is a strange one though. If you had Messi you'd be mad to not build a system around him, so it's a bit redundant.

 

[GIMH]

Messi reminds me of Pat Nevin. I literally could not give higher praise.

 

[Uppercut]

Messi's work in the build-up to Higuain's goal yesterday is the perfect example of why I prefer him. Just textbook really good midfield play. Also this: https://vine.co/v/MUQQmUiIFJu

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dat pass

It's always been Messi by a reasonable distance for me. He has the same insane output of goals as Ronaldo but his general involvement in the game is just better.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah he's not far behind the likes of Silva and Özil as a creative 10, but he scores more than a goal a game as well. Insane.

 

[hendrix]

As someone who barely watches soccer, one tends to think that those really skilful tricky touch players are outplayed at the highest level as their skills aren't applicable on such a large scale and things like pace, height and power become more important. It's more about team skill in terms of getting the ball to where it needs to be by controlling possession and territory than it is about individual skill in setting up play from nothing.

Watching Messi is astonishing because he's pretty much that skilful dude that we've all played against at the local park who's able to dribble through anything, except he can actually do it at the highest level because he also has the pace and power.

 

[sledger]

I think there's a place for skillful and tricky players at all levels to be honest. You see more tricks and flicks and so on in the lower levels (by which I assume you mean playground and park kick-about stuff), but most of these come in fairly casual, mucking around-type situations, in my experience. Finding a player who can use all of these sorts of skills effectively in a proper game-time situation is as rare at the top levels as it is in the lower ones imo. It's all relative etc...

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah, in all my years playing as centre back for school I've never come up against someone who's beaten me with skills or tricks, even though it's happened countless times at breaks and muck about games after school etc.

 

[Uppercut]

I'd have said pace, power and height seem to get more, not less important as you move down the football ladder. Maybe that's just in the UK but certainly the Championship downwards is much more physical than the Premiership or any top European leagues. I think the refereeing is a bit more sympathetic to little guys at the top level, certainly far moreso than in amateur games.

 

[Redbacks]

Lionel Messi Is Impossible | FiveThirtyEight

 

[sledger]

I'd have said pace, power and height seem to get more, not less important as you move down the football ladder. Maybe that's just in the UK but certainly the Championship downwards is much more physical than the Premiership or any top European leagues. I think the refereeing is a bit more sympathetic to little guys at the top level, certainly far moreso than in amateur games.

Not necessarily imo. I think this is true in terms of brute strength and roughness, but not in terms of pace and power necessarily. It's no coincidence that some of the greatest players of the modern era have been fantastic athletes in their own right as well as having bags of talent. Ronaldo, Drogba and Henry for example, were/are not only great footballers, but capable of amazing feats of athleticism in their own right, which in no small way contributed to their footballing success.

 

[Cabinet96]

Lionel Messi Is Impossible | FiveThirtyEight

Might be a weird comparison but Messi reminds me a bit of Bradman in that whenever you really start to look into things in detail you find it truly hard to believe that there could be someone so good. In terms of output, he's miles ahead of everyone else, even Ronaldo.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Might be a weird comparison but Messi reminds me a bit of Bradman in that whenever you really start to look into things in detail you find it truly hard to believe that there could be someone so good. In terms of output, he's miles ahead of everyone else, even Ronaldo.

Have to say this thought has occurred to me before as well. Perhaps not quite as ridiculous as Bradman (it's so hard to quantify with football being a continuous game not made up of discrete events anyway) but I certainly find it very hard to believe that there has ever been anyone as good as Messi. Bradman though is probably a stage further - I think most of us would have difficulty believing there has ever been anyone so good, but that there will ever be anyone as good in the future, as well.

 

[Uppercut]

Not necessarily imo. I think this is true in terms of brute strength and roughness, but not in terms of pace and power necessarily. It's no coincidence that some of the greatest players of the modern era have been fantastic athletes in their own right as well as having bags of talent. Ronaldo, Drogba and Henry for example, were/are not only great footballers, but capable of amazing feats of athleticism in their own right, which in no small way contributed to their footballing success.

Yeah it's definitely important, I just think it's more important at lower levels. It's more likely that the stand-out players are great athletes than similar players to Pirlo or Xavi or Rodriguez. Might be wrong though.

 

[GIMH]

The biggest standout I've ever seen for us since we exited the Championship is Koumas, first time round. Similarly in recent years Robinson, when properly with it, was way above his team mates at teams and couldn't be less of an athlete.

I think classy players stand out more but they are a rarity. Powerful players or quick ones etc are more likely to do well in L1/2 than higher up but they still won't be the best players, IMO

the other side of that is old school attitudes are more prevalent in the lower leagues. People see players like Koumas/Robinson as a 'luxury'

in the end that's all robbo was sadly, but that was because he couldn't run 10 metres. The rest of the time it was a nonsense attitude

 

[hendrix]

Maybe I've got this completely wrong, but I think of Felaini someone not particularly skilful in terms of touch (relatively speaking, of course) but able to have a massive impact at the top level because of his power, his height, his speed and his athleticism.

Again, I could have this completely wrong but I tend to think of the top level of soccer having an inordinate amount of these types of players compared to lower levels.

 

[Uppercut]

You get a lot of Fellaini-types lower down the ladder in England. Although the coaches there generally have the sense not to play them in midfield.

 

[sledger]

Yeah it's definitely important, I just think it's more important at lower levels. It's more likely that the stand-out players are great athletes than similar players to Pirlo or Xavi or Rodriguez. Might be wrong though.

I think it depends how much your style of play is built around/reliant on physical aspects. If you're nothing more than a brute, then yeah, physicality will likely be much more effective in the lower levels than the higher levels. But if you're supremely talented and really great physically I don't think the latter will necessarily become less important at higher levels.

 

[sledger]

Maybe I've got this completely wrong, but I think of Felaini someone not particularly skilful in terms of touch (relatively speaking, of course) but able to have a massive impact at the top level because of his...speed.

Haha, what?