Matty Hayden v SUnil Gavaskar - better test opener ?

[bagapath]

ikki is correct

Some of the pretentious opinions seemingly ingrained on this forum are ridiculous

Batsman with 7,000/8,000 or more test runs at an average over 50 can all reasonably be compared to each other, with the exception of Bradman. This should be obvious yet somehow isn't.

viv richards and mohammad yousuff
sachin tendulkar and mahela jayawardane
greg chappell and sangakkara
hammond and jacques kallis
lara and sehwag
gavaskar and hayden

the stats addicts are really funny....

 

[Precambrian]

viv richards and mohammad yousuff
sachin tendulkar and mahela jayawardane
greg chappell and sangakkara
hammond and jacques kallis
lara and sehwag
gavaskar and hayden

the stats addicts are really funny....

Lol, good one.

Also Boycott Vs Sehwag?

On a serious note, I'd compare Sehwag and Hayden.

 

[thierry henry]

How did I?

Gavaskar faced minnows, Hayden faced minnows. Gavaskar faced weaker attacks, Hayden faced weaker attacks, etc.

My point was that a lot of these criticisms of Hayden also go for Gavaskar...yet they are barely mentioned and compared fairly.

How come they apply to Hayden and Gavaskar but not Richards?

Surely Gavaskar is more comparable to Richards than Gavaskar is to Hayden?

 

[Precambrian]

Yep

Hadn't thought about that one too much tbh. Jayawardene is certainly remarkably underrated.

I think it makes sense for the burden of proof to be on you to explain why the figures somehow don't represent the truth

Dork. Jayawardene is crap outside the spin-dens of Sri Lanka. What is his away average? I think around 35.

 

[Richard]

Batsman with 7,000/8,000 or more test runs at an average over 50 can all reasonably be compared to each other, with the exception of Bradman. This should be obvious yet somehow isn't.

Nah, Matthew Hayden would never be Test-class if he hadn't played a game after 2001/02.

Simple as that for my money, I've said why so many million times, and that's not going to be changing any time in my lifetime or after.

 

[thierry henry]

viv richards and mohammad yousuff
sachin tendulkar and mahela jayawardane
greg chappell and sangakkara
hammond and jacques kallis
lara and sehwag
gavaskar and hayden

the stats addicts are really funny....

Got no problem with most of those comparisons. A couple are not really statistical equivalents e.g. Lara/Sehwag, Tendulkar/Jayawardene, Richards/Yousuf, because of the difference in longevity/number of games played.

I think the real issue there is, why are Jayawardene and Youhana not more highly rated?

Certainly have no problem with Hammond/Kallis or Hayden/Gavaskar, and I think Sanga is fit for comparison with anyone.

 

[Richard]

presumably cos Dickinson's still asleep.....

Nah I've never called Knight anything but a very poor Test opener, FTR.

 

[Richard]

I think the real issue there is, why are Jayawardene and Youhana not more highly rated?

Because they're both flat-track bullies. Not to the extent Hayden is, but they both are and that's pretty obvious if you look at their records in detail.

 

[thierry henry]

Nah, Matthew Hayden would never be Test-class if he hadn't played a game after 2001/02.

But he did....

He then went on to score a massive amount of runs in imperious style at a high average...

 

[Richard]

But he did....

He then went on to score a massive amount of runs in imperious style at a high average...

I know. What needs to be understood is why he did that, not simply that he did.

2001/02-onwards is not comparable to any other time in Test history, IMO.

 

[thierry henry]

Because they're both flat-track bullies. Not to the extent Hayden is, but they both are and that's pretty obvious if you look at their records in detail.

Stats to the rescue again

 

[Uppercut]

Dork. Jayawardene is crap outside the spin-dens of Sri Lanka. What is his away average? I think around 35.

That's the thing about comparing though. In Sri Lanka, Jayawardene>everyone. If you need your runs quickly, Sehwag>Boycott. If you need a final day batted out, Atherton>Pietersen. Unless one player is better than another under ALL circumstances, it's not entirely fair to call the comparison ridiculous (even if you could call it ridiculous if they came to the conclusion that Jayawardene>Tendulkar).

 

[thierry henry]

Dork. Jayawardene is crap outside the spin-dens of Sri Lanka. What is his away average? I think around 35.

Well then his record at home must be particularly amazing

Don't games in Sri Lanka count?

 

[thierry henry]

2001/02-onwards is not comparable to any other time in Test history, IMO.

I think the question needs to be asked then....why did Yousuf, Jayawardene, Hayden, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara and Sehwag cash in....but not Tendulkar? Or even Lara to the same extent?

Flat track duds?

 

[archie mac]

Cos he's West Indian?

When I have ago at Murali I am racist, when I support Lara I am..........


Sobers beautiful to watch as was/is Lara and Richards

As were GSC, Mark Waugh, Gower and Azza, That post might just be the silliest one you have ever posted

And it has had some tough comp

 

[Precambrian]

Well then his record at home must be particularly amazing

Don't games in Sri Lanka count?

Yes they do, however a batsman to be called good, he has to perform in all conditions, thank just being a Home bully.

 

[thierry henry]

When I have ago at Murali I am racist, when I support Lara I am..........


Sobers beautiful to watch as was/is Lara and Richards

As were GSC, Mark Waugh, Gower and Azza, That post might just be the silliest one you have ever posted

And it has had some tough comp

It's not a go at you specifically, you seem to be one of many with a bias towards West Indian cricket.

Maybe it's just a coincidence but Richards and Sobers in particular are the two cricketers who are most often romantically perceived as transcending any rational evaluation of their records/stats/actual performances

 

[Richard]

I think the question needs to be asked then....why did Yousuf, Jayawardene, Hayden, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara and Sehwag cash in....but not Tendulkar? Or even Lara to the same extent?

Flat track duds?

No, they just declined. Tendulkar is not the player he once was and hasn't been since 2003. It's as simple as that.

 

[thierry henry]

Yes they do, however a batsman to be called good, he has to perform in all conditions, thank just being a Home bully.

That's one way of looking at it

Could also say that Jayawardene balances out being worse than others away, by being better than they are at home...

 

[Precambrian]

No, they just declined. Tendulkar is not the player he once was and hasn't been since 2003. It's as simple as that.

AWTA, except against the Aussies.

Oh, and supposing only test matches. He's been every bit important in the ODIs.