Matty Hayden v SUnil Gavaskar - better test opener ?

[Anil]

Hayden is one of the greatest openers of all time and compares with Gavaskar quite easily.

no he isn't and no he doesn't...

 

[Anil]

This is ridiculous. Why would Hayden be a couple rungs below? If I were to bring the same arguments that people put against Hayden for Gavaskar then he wouldn't be near Hobbs and Sutcliffe either.

having seen the two at their best, i can say hayden is just not in the same league...

 

[Ikki]

no he isn't and no he doesn't...

And explain why. Gavaskar's only real achievement occurs against Pakistan. Averages in the 30s against England. Never faced a strong Aussie attack with both Lillee and Thomson and never faced the touted strong Windies attack either. Smashed Sri Lanka, who were piss-poor weak at the time. And that is his test record in a nutshell.

Just so we can knock a few pegs off to get to reality.

having seen the two at their best, i can say hayden is just not in the same league...

That's great, I don't see why just because you think that, that it is basically true? Frankly, I thought Lara was in another class to every other batsmen of his time too...but I know enough to understand he wasn't.

Then to say these two are not comparable...hogwash.

 

[SJS]

Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

Let the debate begin.

 

[Ikki]

Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

Let the debate begin.

You'd expect this from someone that doesn't know any better...but to say Hayden was average - because that's what Dev was as a pacer is ludicrous coming from you.

 

[Craig]

So Ikki name us an overseas cricketer that is better then an Australian, ever?

 

[archie mac]

Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

Let the debate begin.

Dev because Lillee is unproven in the Sub. Cont.

I watched both Hayden and Gavaskar, and I think Gavaskar easily the better. The pitches in the 70s and 80s in places like Aust, Eng, and NZ were actually hard to bat on, not like the feather beds being produced in Aust these days

Still Haydon, has made himself into a very good batsman

 

[Precambrian]

Been through this a million times. Hayden is one of the greatest openers of all time and compares with Gavaskar quite easily. The comparison is helped by a few myths - some that seem to inflate Gavaskar's reputation and others that deflate Hayden's. Having said that, looking at it as it stands, Gavaskar is a bit better. If Hayden improves his away record there is no reason why he can't be the better of the two. Actually, Gavaskar's home record isn't too flash either and is held up by his smashing of Sri Lanka - minnows of the time.

OMG, Gavaskar is one of the all time best openers in history of the game!!

Hayden maybe one of the best Australian openers, however his average is primarily made up of home runs against weak attacks. He's been very ordinary away from home, and he's a bit too old to dramatically change that.

Should be one of the most one-sided comparison in recent times.

 

[Redbacks]

Dev because Lillee is unproven in the Sub. Cont.

You could question any wicket takers record from the home team in the Sub. Cont

Why does evey post hide behind calling bastmen's records aided by flat wickets, then maybe we people should start adjusting bowlers stats to account for when the conditions favoured them. Murali hasn't been overly effective in Australia, so he isn't that good a bowler

 

[Ikki]

So Ikki name us an overseas cricketer that is better then an Australian, ever?

LOL, what? If this is about being better, I already said I think Gavaskar is better. But to say they are not comparable is tripe. I've already made my point in several threads, even gone as far as putting Hayden in my all-time XI, so I'll try not to rehash.

OMG, Gavaskar is one of the all time best openers in history of the game!!

And Hayden isn't?

Hayden maybe one of the best Australian openers, however his average is primarily made up of home runs against weak attacks. He's been very ordinary away from home, and he's a bit too old to dramatically change that.

Actually, it isn't. And if I wanted to play the game of "weak" attacks that goes just as much for Gavaskar as it does to Hayden. Gavaskar has been ordinary at home, even with those tracks.

Hayden is criminally underrated here. To the point that someone like Richard can say Nasser Hussain is better and SJS can compare Dev with Hayden.

Gavaskar is an all-time great, but to say he is not comparable is stupid. By the same account he isn't comparable to Hobbs, Sutcliffe or Hutton and is "merely" an Indian great. For the same reasons Hayden is denied, Sunil himself can just as easily be denied compared to the English openers.

Anyway, I've had my rant and I know the same people will think the same things without even questioning themselves. If Hayden gets his away average to about 47-50, he's done enough to equate Sunil IMO.

 

[weldone]

Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

Let the debate begin.

Or, who is the better middle-order batsman? - Mohammad Yousuf or Brian Lara

 

[Craig]

LOL, what? If this is about being better, I already said I think Gavaskar is better. But to say they are not comparable is tripe. I've already made my point in several threads, even gone as far as putting Hayden in my all-time XI, so I'll try not to rehash.



And Hayden isn't?



Actually, it isn't. And if I wanted to play the game of "weak" attacks that goes just as much for Gavaskar as it does to Hayden. Gavaskar has been ordinary at home, even with those tracks.

Hayden is criminally underrated here. To the point that someone like Richard can say Nasser Hussain is better and SJS can compare Dev with Hayden.

Gavaskar is an all-time great, but to say he is not comparable is stupid. By the same account he isn't comparable to Hobbs, Sutcliffe or Hutton and is "merely" an Indian great. For the same reasons Hayden is denied, Sunil himself can just as easily be denied compared to the English openers.

Anyway, I've had my rant and I know the same people will think the same things without even questioning themselves. If Hayden gets his away average to about 47-50, he's done enough to equate Sunil IMO.

Sorry it was in jest.

 

[archie mac]

You could question any wicket takers record from the home team in the Sub. Cont

If you had read any of the 1000 posts I have made about Lillee you would know I was joking

Why does evey post hide behind calling bastmen's records aided by flat wickets, then maybe we people should start adjusting bowlers stats to account for when the conditions favoured them. Murali hasn't been overly effective in Australia, so he isn't that good a bowler

I don't know why? Maybe because it is a fact!

 

[Redbacks]

If you had read any of the 1000 posts I have made about Lillee you would know I was joking

good to hear

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Gavaskar was the perfect opener. Almost flawless technique and could play attacking or defensive innings as the situation warranted (Lords 1975 apart). Hayden has a dreadful technique similar to K9 chasing a greyhound bunny but it's hard to argue with the quantity of runs he scores.

 

[silentstriker]

Hmm, if Hayden = Gavaskar, then Sehwag is closing in on Gavaskar.

That thought made me throw up a little.

 

[weldone]

...but to say Hayden was average - because that's what Dev was as a pacer...

Wait, wait, wait...What? Kapil Dev was an average bowler? Well, yes, his bowling is in no way comparable to Lillee's but that's a different question altogether...But, Kapil Dev was an average bowler! Then what was Sir Gary Sobers? I sincerely hope you won't say poor...

And you completely misunderstood SJS's point...He never meant Hayden is average...He meant Hayden is a very good opener, as good as Kapil as a pace bowler perhaps...But Lillee and Gavaskar are in a different league altogether...They are among the best 5-6 in the business in history of cricket (in pace bowling and opening respectively), which Hayden or Kapil aren't...If you want to differ in view do that (like if you feel Hayden is one of the best openers in the history of test cricket, you are free to feel so), but don't make comments like calling Kapil an average bowler...On a second thought, probably you yourself will understant that was idiotic.

 

[bagapath]

the difference between gavaskar and hayden is the difference between marshall and walsh. and that is not meant to be insulting to any of the four champs above.

 

[Burgey]

are you kidding? gavaskar by so much it isn't funny...gavaskar bears serious comparison to the greatest ever openers test cricket has seen while hayden would be at least a couple of rungs below...

Check out the actual attacks he batted against when playing WI and England away. I think SJS (apologies if incorrect) did something on that a year or so back IIRC.

 

[thierry henry]

ikki is correct

Some of the pretentious opinions seemingly ingrained on this forum are ridiculous

Batsman with 7,000/8,000 or more test runs at an average over 50 can all reasonably be compared to each other, with the exception of Bradman. This should be obvious yet somehow isn't.