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Males banned from watching the women world cup qualifiers in Pakistan

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
SS, I'm not defending the act of banning men from these games. I'm just giving you one reason for it - a reason that is stupid but understandable in the circumstances.
I know you aren't defending it. I am simply arguing that it's completely wrong and idiotic (as you say). And frankly, if you're going to allow women to play cricket, I don't understand the point of not allowing people to watch. After all, it is entertainment.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
If my sister were playing, as someone suggested, she would be more than capable of ignoring or handling any male fan(s), just as I'd expect my professional players to be capable of it. If you can't control your Vermulenesque instinct, you shouldn't be playing spectator sports anyway.

rodzilla1010 said:
And we do nt tolerate that our sisters or mothers have relationships with other men.
It's one thing to not like it. But to enforce your will on another human being when they clearly don't want it, is wrong.

I'm not going to buy this cultural differences argument. But to force or coerce an adult with free will, to do x or y against their will....it's simply wrong. If your sister was an adult, and wanted to do [play cricket, date a guy, etc], you simply have no right to stop her, even by Pakistani law (and definitely morally).
 
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Beleg

International Regular
1) Would you guys rather want a cricket match to take place without men sitting in the spectators or its better if it doesnt happen at all?
I'd rather the match doesn't take place at all. Basic equality is a much more important issue than mere sports.

Secondly, i think its unfair to critisize somone's culture. I mean watching half nude females in Australia and South Africa is as offending for me, as men not being invited into women's games can be for you. therefore whats a better culture is just a matter of opinion.
Gender segregation is as offending for me, as a Pakistani, as watching 'half-nude' females in other countries might be for you. This step indicates a direction I definitely do not want my country to be taking.

Thirdly, I can see how the players will be comfortable with the fact that the chances of getting verbly or even phyically harrassed will be narrowwed down. Even thier partners or parents will be more supporting knowing that it is safer for them to be in the ground.
This is an extremely offensive presumption. Male players cop all sorts of verbal abuse, what is stopping their female counterparts from ignoring it? In a country like Pakistan, where it is taboo to even swear publically in front of women, the chances of someone verbally abusing the girls and getting away without retribution is even smaller. Regarding physical harrassment, it is the job of the security to look after stuff like that. You cannot ban people on presumption alone; this is setting an extremely bad, not to mention, ***ist precedent.

Richard,

Punishing innocents is in itself a travesty of justice, specially on such a basic scale as this.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I'd rather the match doesn't take place at all. Basic equality is a much more important issue than mere sports.



Gender segregation is as offending for me, as a Pakistani, as watching 'half-nude' females in other countries might be for you. This step indicates a direction I definitely do not want my country to be taking.



This is an extremely offensive presumption. Male players cop all sorts of verbal abuse, what is stopping their female counterparts from ignoring it? In a country like Pakistan, where it is taboo to even swear publically in front of women, the chances of someone verbally abusing the girls and getting away without retribution is even smaller. Regarding physical harrassment, it is the job of the security to look after stuff like that. You cannot ban people on presumption alone; this is setting an extremely bad, not to mention, ***ist precedent.

Richard,

Punishing innocents is in itself a travesty of justice, specially on such a basic scale as this.
Agreed completely.
 

adharcric

International Coach
You make a few good points but I still believe this is a tiny forward step for Pakistan. Letting women play cricket publicly is better than forbidding them from even that. Take what you get and try to build on that in the future.
 

Beleg

International Regular
You make a few good points but I still believe this is a tiny forward step for Pakistan. Letting women play cricket publicly is better than forbidding them from even that. Take what you get and try to build on that in the future.
Women have been playing cricket publically in Pakistan for ages. Girls picking up cricket bats and balls is not a new phenomenon.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Either way, I don't see why you would stop them from playing simply because you aren't getting a perfect scenario (no gender discrimination).
 

Beleg

International Regular
adharcric,

Perfect scenario's are not practical. Gender discrimination can never be completely wiped out, the point is, such blatant, in-your-face discrimination based on extremely flakey, borderline offensive presumptions and the application of a religion-based morality system in an international tournament is deplorable.

P.S: I would not (cannot) stop them playing; however, there are several things in life more important than sports. Those who are calling this a positive step towards female empowerment are deluding themselves; the only forces in work here are the typical pakistani attitudes, coated in and shaped by religious influences, which can be summarised by a set of female-lego's running around in scarfs inside a glasshouse with an opaque outer shell as the prepetually horny male attempts to break his way in, tongue dripping and eyes gleaming with desire and all.
 

Simon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Removed Quote.
Mate that's highly inappropirate (from what im told), if you want to continue to be a member of this community i suggest you smarten up your act.
 
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Slow Love™

International Captain
P.S: I would not (cannot) stop them playing; however, there are several things in life more important than sports. Those who are calling this a positive step towards female empowerment are deluding themselves; the only forces in work here are the typical pakistani attitudes, coated in and shaped by religious influences, which can be summarised by a set of female-lego's running around in scarfs inside a glasshouse with an opaque outer shell as the prepetually horny male attempts to break his way in, tongue dripping and eyes gleaming with desire and all.
Haha, yeah, I was so deluded about the forces at work here that I specifically mentioned them. 8-)

Sometimes I wonder how people think change is enacted. In my teens I probably would have had a similar stance to yours, and I still refuse now to treat all cultures as if they are merely different, yet equal, but the older I get the more pragmatic I get. Because ultimately, to me, practical results and liberalisation are worthwhile goals that can (practically!) be spread fairly effectively if somebody is allowed to open the door. You obviously have to draw the lines somewhere because some conditions ARE unacceptable, but when an interlocuter is willing to make concessions to be more like the rest of the world (which is exactly what Pakistan is doing here, as clearly, they have been unwilling to host such an event in the past and indeed, they only had their first national womens' championship only two years ago), I believe it pays to keep that process alive rather than turning our backs on it.

Zimbabwe is an example where I am unequivically against engaging them in terms of international cricket - because, amongst a myriad of other reasons that I've outlined in quite a few posts on the subject here, we would simply be giving Mad Bob exactly what he wants (and has always wanted), completely under his conditions, with no concessions granted or behaviours promised. In that instance, clearly it's less important to play cricket there than make a stand over important principles.

IMO, this is different - this is a situation where Pakistani cricket is prepared to host an event they have not been prepared to before, and they are willing to make some concessions (such as how the women are able to be dressed) in order to do so (I don't know how contentious having males officiate the game is, but the article seems to imply it wasn't entirely expected). This is how change works, a door is opened, and somebody takes a step through. You may have a different opinion, but I hardly think that seeing this as a positive step for womens' empowerment is a delusion. Certainly the captain of the womens' team (who appears to occupy a position in the organization of womens' cricket in Pakistan) appears to see it as important progress for womens' cricket's status in the country, and a way to promote a more moderate image of Pakistan as a participant.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
Very valid point here, here lies the differences. In western socities if you see a guy dating your sister or even if you know that she has a ***ual relationship with another man, you will be ok with it.
In Pakistan we treat women as a symbol of honor. And we do nt tolerate that our sisters or mothers have relationships with other men. It all roots from there. If i se my sister talking to a guy after a cricket match or if i see a group of guys whistling when my sister is batting i ll probably go around and pull thier tongue of out thier mouth.
TBH, this really isn't the greatest advertisement for your beliefs. Where my tolerance of this ends is where the woman has no say in her ability to interact with others. IMO that is not evidence of women being a symbol of honor so much as it is treating her as a possession without her own rights. This is all I will post on this, but obviously other countries that participate in the competition don't require that men attending without families be barred from such an event for the dangers or risk they would present to the participants.
 

C_C

International Captain
I always wonder why people get so flustered when someone mention something about their womenfolk. Like as if someone says something about my mom, it suddenly becomes her :S

I used to live in Arabia and there the common form of insulting people ( remember we were highschool kids) were to diss their mothers or sisters. Everytime someone would try that with me and wonders aloud how my mom would enjoy 'certain acts', i told them 'hang on- gimme your cell and i will find out for you..just tell me if you wanna do this at my place when dad is away or should she come to your place'. That usually got them to STFU real fast.
 

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