MacGill must tour India - Ganguly

[marc71178]

At the time it was made, it was far from pointless and it was also extremely praiseworthy.

 

[Craig]

Err, yes, and in the end that was a pointless gesture, wasn't it?!

No it wasn't.

You don't make decisions that practically end your own international career for it to be pointless.

 

[Richard]

It was pointless - had he not stated that he was unwilling to go to Zimbabwe, it would not have made any difference.
As no Test squad travelled anyway, he would not have gone.
It does not mean it was not a perfectly legitimate decision, though - I fully understand anyone who does not want to go to Zimbabwe. It must be a terrible thing, it can't be possible for all the awful sights to be hidden.

 

[marc71178]

It was pointless - had he not stated that he was unwilling to go to Zimbabwe, it would not have made any difference.

Why not?

He showed he has a conscience and gained a lot of repect from the International comunity.

 

[Richard]

For doing what?
How did it help anyone in Zimbabwe that one Australian cricketer refused to go on a non-existant tour?

 

[marc71178]

At the time of the pull-out it was not non-existent, and it showed that at least one person was aware of what was going on, and was prepared to make a stand against it.

 

[Richard]

A stand which was likely to achieve...?
Everyone knows what's going on, nothing any cricketer can do to stop it.

 

[marc71178]

Funny how you didn't dare to post this sort of thing when he made the stand and was so roundly applauded for it on here.

 

[Richard]

Dare?
Or perhaps it had something to do with the fact that I wasn't posting anything at the time and wasn't visiting the site?

 

[luckyeddie]

A stand which was likely to achieve...?
Everyone knows what's going on, nothing any cricketer can do to stop it.

You know, they said exactly the same kind of thing against us when we were campaigning against the South African tour in 1970.

I very much doubt whether anything we did or said mattered one iota in the great scheme of things at the time - as an isolated incident, on its own, it was nothing. But as part of a systematic campaign over more than 30 years, it became one tiny drop of water in a great torrent which washed the white supremacist fascism away and eventually saw Nelson Mandela a free man.

So it will be with Zimbabwe and Mugabe, have no fear about that.

 

[marc71178]

And you really think you'd have said such a thing had you been on here at the time?

I can only imagine the reaction.

 

[Richard]

You know, they said exactly the same kind of thing against us when we were campaigning against the South African tour in 1970.

I very much doubt whether anything we did or said mattered one iota in the great scheme of things at the time - as an isolated incident, on its own, it was nothing. But as part of a systematic campaign over more than 30 years, it became one tiny drop of water in a great torrent which washed the white supremacist fascism away and eventually saw Nelson Mandela a free man.

So it will be with Zimbabwe and Mugabe, have no fear about that.

You and Peter Hain had a massive amount of public contingent which first stopped two tours and eventually caused the country to be banned from international sport.
The way I understand it the GlenEagles Agreement played a huge part in the end of Apartheid.
Personally I'd welcome The ZCU's suspension from The ICC.
But according to Andy Flower it wouldn't be likely to help much, because apparently sport isn't such an integral part of Zimbabwean society as it is in South Africa.

 

[Richard]

And you really think you'd have said such a thing had you been on here at the time?

I can only imagine the reaction.

Had I been on here I'd have said it was what it was - an empty gesture.
Which became more empty as time wore on.

 

[luckyeddie]

Had I been on here I'd have said it was what it was - an empty gesture.
Which became more empty as time wore on.

It might have been a gesture - but it would never have been an empty one, no more so than the stand taken by Olonga and Flower, then Streak et al.

You remarked in another thread an hour or so ago that there had been a rather stupid argument going on (the Ponting one, which was not an argument about cricket at all but about semantics). Well, this one's far more stupid than that, because it's about opinions (as opposed to AN opinion) and as such will only end in people begging to differ (if we're lucky).

 

[Richard]

Well I won't go calling anyone baboons or orag-utans.
(Though personally I don't really blame you for your descriptions in that instance)
The Olonga-Flower stand was totally different - it was a poignant, hugely high-profile gesture, by two high-profile Zimbabweans, one black and one white, which sacrificed the career of a 25-year-old (I think Olonga was 25 ATT) and, I believe, helped far more than anything Stuart MacGill might do.
Obviously it won't bring the Govornment down or anything, sadly, but I do believe it might help, with some things to add to it, obviosly.

 

[luckyeddie]

Well I won't go calling anyone baboons or orag-utans.

...and neither do I. I called him a 'one-trick-pony' (that surely cannot be disputed).

Where you SEEM to be getting confused is that I suggested that the person concerned :

... seem to have all the debating skills of a dodo, the spelling abilities of an orang-utan with a typewriter and the cricketing knowledge of a sack of lemons

.

I appreciate that this is more than likely derisory toward said lemons, but it's difficult to draw the line sometimes.

 

[Richard]

Look, I'm not disputing a thing. I'd agree wholeheartedly, whether you called him an orang-utan or said he had the spelling abilities of one.
I was only joking.
I'd call tooextracool a few things if I didn't agree that it's in the best interests of the forum not to.
But I do think that this sort of stuff very much has a place in conversation, in Cricket Chat, and that discussion of it should not turn nasty. Certainly between you and me, who I'd hope have enough respect for each other to debate in a remotely grown-up way, unlike certain members.

 

[luckyeddie]

Grown-up?

GROWN-UP?

Oh, all right then.

Let's form an alliance then both pick on TEC

 

[Richard]

Sounds good to me!
Though I wasn't actually referring to tooextracool with the "unlike certain forum members" bit - he might try to make-up stuff and misinterpret deliberately, but I was referring to the proverbial Scallywag with that particular comment.

 

[tooextracool]

Sounds good to me!
Though I wasn't actually referring to tooextracool with the "unlike certain forum members" bit - he might try to make-up stuff and misinterpret deliberately, but I was referring to the proverbial Scallywag with that particular comment.

yes like the time when you said the perth wicket was a turner, despite the fact that cricinfo disagreed with you. oh yes made up stuff that.
or the time that you thought ealham's batting abilities were just about as good as any other no 7 around the world......