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katich over jaques

33/3from3.3

International Vice-Captain
howardj said:
Phil Jaques says the correct way to say it is actually "Jakes". .
that still seems ridiculous
mind you the Aus comentators always make up ways of saying stuff
Jimmy Maher "mar"Chaminda Vaas "vas" Chris Cairns "cans". plus the 2 Lang mentioned
Are the ones that come to mind
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Autobahn said:
Tait may have raw pace but without direction that's pointless in ODIs, he may be able to beat a few batsmen by sheer pace but if he's going at 7 an over it's pointless.
He's consistently been the best List-A bowler in Australia (along with MacGill) for a couple of seasons, and his career record (average 22, eco 4.8) is very impressive.
 

Top_Cat

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I think the Aussie selectors picked Kat over Jaques because they're aware of what he can do. It's easy to pick a guy when he's hitting the ball well (as Jaques is right now) but the unknown quantity is what would sway them a bit. It would not have escaped their notice, for example, that a lot of Jaques' runs were scored square on the off-side and that is his strongest area and that the opposition apparently missed that. Once bowlers pick up on that, he'll be tested because he has a bit of Hayden about him; quick to jump on the front-foot and nail the ball through point but when cramped for room, looks vulnerable. That's exactly how Pollock got him in the first-innings of his first Test. That and they know if they drop Kat, he's unlikely to come back so they're giving him every chance to do well.

That said, I don't think he should be out of the team. I don't think Hodge should have replaced Punter; I would have opened with Jaques and had Kat at 3 for this match. Long-term, well, I'd be playing Jaques at every opportunity. Give him every opportunity to find his feet at international level before the WC.

howardj: Man, you assume a lot with very little evidence. You really like this 'evil Buchanan' theory of yours, don't you? Every time something weird happens, you blame him. How on Earth would you know how far his reach goes? Ponting is on record, in fact, as saying that stuff like batting order, etc. is largely down to him as captain.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Autobahn said:
Tait may have raw pace but without direction that's pointless .
I didn't even think he had raw pace, he looked incredibly mediocre to me during the ashes, maybe I'm wrong but surely you have bigger guns coming through the ranks?
 

Top_Cat

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I didn't even think he had raw pace, he looked incredibly mediocre to me during the ashes, maybe I'm wrong but surely you have bigger guns coming through the ranks?
Well for one, he was clocked in the low 150's a few times so he definitely has 'raw pace'.

For two, his first Test was only his third game on the whole tour. He was pretty under-done but in fairness, that's because he probably wasn't expected to play (stupid move by the selectors to pick a guy expecting that he won't play; either pick someone else or play him in the warm-ups). We didn't see the best of Tait in that series, believe me. I've seen him plenty locally.

For three, he took 63 wickets in the Pura Cup (playing half of his home games on the Adelaide Oval) last year and the record is 67. He is definitely rated one of the better bowlers coming through the ranks.

For four, he hardly got smacked and took three wickets in his first innings, clean-bowling England most consistent batsman in the series to that point (Marc Trescothick). After that, Ponting barely used him and when he finally did, took a couple of wickets. When you only get a few overs at ta time, it's quite difficult to take wickets.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Langeveldt said:
I didn't even think he had raw pace, he looked incredibly mediocre to me during the ashes, maybe I'm wrong but surely you have bigger guns coming through the ranks?
Well he's as fast as anyone in the world. Surely that qualifies as raw pace?
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Matteh said:
I personally feel that Katich is probably the most underrated Aussie batsman in the team atm...
A few months ago, pre-Ashes, he was being touted as possibly the best test batsman in the Australian team. How things change.

I think he's a pretty good ODI player who cops a bit too much, but I can see why some may believe he shouldn't be there. He does seem to get a hell of a lot of 50s though, but he doesn't go on with them.
 

howardj

International Coach
Top_Cat said:
howardj: Man, you assume a lot with very little evidence. You really like this 'evil Buchanan' theory of yours, don't you? Every time something weird happens, you blame him. How on Earth would you know how far his reach goes? Ponting is on record, in fact, as saying that stuff like batting order, etc. is largely down to him as captain.
Geez, someone's serious. Half of that is tongue in cheek - clearly, deliberately exaggerated. Im not entirely serious about it. I have no idea how far his reach goes, obviously. Having said that, I think he is a bit too 'left-field', at times. I mean, during the Ashes for instance, instead of helping to address the no-ball epidemic, he was advocating a theory of 'self-management' - let the bowlers work it out for themselves. That type of thing....it's just weird.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
well we have to start looking at this realistically, the selectors are showing faith in Katich so the only way really that jaques is going to replace him is if Katich start failing sooner or later.
 

howardj

International Coach
aussie said:
well we have to start looking at this realistically, the selectors are showing faith in Katich so the only way really that jaques is going to replace him is if Katich start failing sooner or later.
Plenty of water is still to pass under the Australian bridge before the World Cup. My take on things is that they are giving Katich an extended run, for to drop him would entirely terminate his International cricket career. Right now, the selectors have that luxury. As soon as we start losing a few games (of significance) though, and as the World Cup draws nearer, the selectors will be less inclined to exercise such a luxury.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Langeveldt said:
I didn't even think he had raw pace, he looked incredibly mediocre to me during the ashes, maybe I'm wrong but surely you have bigger guns coming through the ranks?
Tait is head and shoulders the best young fast bowler comming through in Australia. The next best is Mitchell Johnson, who is competely uselesss and probably isn't really good enough to make the QLD side, if it wasn't for the fact that the rest of the QLD attack are in their late 20s and 30s.

But in saying that the average age for a FC debut in Australia is still mid 20s, so there probably some half decent quicks playing 2nd XI, who can't get a game infront of guys in their late 20s.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
howardj said:
Plenty of water is still to pass under the Australian bridge before the World Cup. My take on things is that they are giving Katich an extended run, for to drop him would entirely terminate his International cricket career. Right now, the selectors have that luxury. As soon as we start losing a few games (of significance) though, and as the World Cup draws nearer, the selectors will be less inclined to exercise such a luxury.
all true, but Jaques has to be in their whatever Katich can do Jaques can surely do better.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
aussie said:
for NSW in the ING cup sure, not for the aussie ODI team though.
Why not? They compliment each other well. Jaques has the ability to score very quickly ala Gilchrist and Katich can gather runs like he did last night (on a difficult pitch). If you have Gilchrist and Jaques together you could end up 0/100 after 10 or 2/30 after 4...
 

howardj

International Coach
NZTailender said:
Why not? They compliment each other well. ...
I think that's over-rated in ODI's, to be honest. Heading into the WC in the Carribean - with small grounds and super-flat wickets - I think the selectors should be looking for two very aggressive batsmen to head things up (Gilchrist/Jaques; Jaques/Clarke).
 

Top_Cat

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I think that's over-rated in ODI's, to be honest. Heading into the WC in the Carribean - with small grounds and super-flat wickets - I think the selectors should be looking for two very aggressive batsmen to head things up (Gilchrist/Jaques; Jaques/Clarke).
What about Clarke/Gilchrist? Or, because it didn't involve the use of the word 'Jaques', did your brain not process this possibility?

:p
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
NZTailender said:
Why not? They compliment each other well. Jaques has the ability to score very quickly ala Gilchrist and Katich can gather runs like he did last night (on a difficult pitch). If you have Gilchrist and Jaques together you could end up 0/100 after 10 or 2/30 after 4...
well that how australia play, full out attack since they have such a long batting line-up most of our previous partnerships have been 2 really aggressive partnerships, so dont see the problem with it..
 

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