vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Just throwing out ideas here, but reverse swing being easier to get on the drier pitches of Pakistan, rather than away from home.
Obviously so, but both tend to have in common a lack of seam-friendliness in the pitches (and a lack of swing in the atmosphere). It's just in India that tended to mean spin-friendly decks and in Pakistan completely bowler-graveyard tracks.Sorry, mis-read.
Wasim is more closely associated with Waqar as Imran was largely finished as a front-liner by the period in question.
Imran was another magnificent bowler - like Wasim he swung the ball both ways at great pace. Some of the best bowling I've ever seen came from him on a tour of Eng in the early 80s where, quite frankly, quite blatant home-town umpiring stood between Pakistan and a series victory over a good English side.
BTW, I do realise that there is more to playing cricket against Oz but I didnt see Waqar perform at his best so am in no position to judge
AND Pakistan is different to India (believe it or not)
BTW, Waqar's test record was significantly better at home than away - he averaged over 5 runs a wicket less and took less wickets per test
Given that I didnt see much of him (and when I did, he was a class below Wasim), can anyone shed light on the reasons behind this?
Waqar of the good era still managed an average of 22 away from home, compared to 16 at home.Just throwing out ideas here, but reverse swing being easier to get on the drier pitches of Pakistan, rather than away from home.
India, for a time, favoured conventional swing at certain grounds.Obviously so, but both tend to have in common a lack of seam-friendliness in the pitches (and a lack of swing in the atmosphere). It's just in India that tended to mean spin-friendly decks and in Pakistan completely bowler-graveyard tracks.
I didn't mean to compare Imran and Waqar - simply point-out that both demonstrate that bowling well with the subcontinent your home as a seamer is far from impossible. Kapil probably would have been more successful had he been, as I say, English or Kiwi (only Angus Fraser, in all likelihood, matches his talent of the English players in the post-Snow\Willis era) but I don't like the "he was from the subcontinent so he was bound to have it hard as a seamer" line of thought, because some bowlers have disproved such a thing.
Neither Imran nor Richards ever said such a thing.But this type of stuff is typical of yours & one can understand that its because whether they were jealous of Kapil or not, U r definately jealous of both Viv Richards & Imran.Viv Richard once said about him that the trick to tackle Kapil Dev is to play him like a spinner.
I think both of them were just jealous
You ARE joking, aren't you?Originally posted by rodzilla1010 aka nehrafan aka BingLeeElectric
That shows how great the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Imran were. Kapil is not being compared to them, nor did he have the same support that any of them did. You can't just say that bowling in certain conditions isn't difficult simply because a few all-time greats achieved success there.Richard said:I don't like the "he was from the subcontinent so he was bound to have it hard as a seamer" line of thought, because some bowlers have disproved such a thing.
The mo.I don't really understand why Imran Khan would be jealous of Kapil Dev, considering he was a better batsman, bowler and captain than Kapil. And Viv is all time great batsman by any account, so I don't see why he would be jealous either. I'd have to see proof.
True, and...That shows how great the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Imran were. Kapil is not being compared to them, nor did he have the same support that any of them did. You can't just say that bowling in certain conditions isn't difficult simply because a few all-time greats achieved success there.
can i ask why you think Imran was a better captain than DevI don't really understand why Imran Khan would be jealous of Kapil Dev, considering he was a better batsman, bowler and captain than Kapil. And Viv is all time great batsman by any account, so I don't see why he would be jealous either. I'd have to see proof.
For me captaincy can be split into two categories, man management and tactical awareness.Because he did what hardly anyone else has ever done, and introduced calm into the panic-station known as the Pakistani cricket team.
Captaining India is a slightly less ominous task.
well I am not saying Kapil Dev was a mastermind captain, however, I think it is easily forgotten what acheivements India made in the time Dev was a captain, including the World Cup in 83. Now, a lot of Imrans reputation (not all by any means) is based on Pakistans World Cup victory (cornered tigers etc). I never really recall Imrans captaincy prowess being mentioned too much before then , in fact, I have a few publications from a few years before the Wolrd Cup win, where his captiancy skills are most definatly questioned (I will try hunt them down).I don't feel Imran was overrated. Not many people I've heard discuss his captaincy even remotely consider tactical awareness. It's all about that most difficult of tasks, bringing calm to the Pakistani team.
Clive Lloyd (and before him Frank Worrell) were the same with West Indies, and Lloyd if not Worrell was certainly no tactical genius (nor did he need to be with the bowlers mostly at his disposal).
Simply put, captaincy of certain teams requires different skills - for Pakistan and West Indies, the man-management is infinately the more important - for England, for example, it's more of a level playing-field, which is why Michael Brearley was so exceptional.
I mean, Brearley is universally accepted to be the best England captain of all-time, Lloyd\Worrell West Indies', and Imran Pakistan's. Yet the reasons differ wildly. And rightly, too.
I didn't, obviously, watch WC83 but I've never heard Kapil's captaincy be spoken of in especially glowing terms. Could you explain what was so good about it?
damn, I thought I had answered.You didn't manage to answer the question. What exactly about Kapil's captaincy was so good? As I've said before, I'm reluctant to just presume: mediocre team won something, captaincy must have been brilliant.
As for Imran's captaincy being questioned - par-for-the-course, especially in Pakistan. Just look at the current Inzamam situation. Half the country think he's done a magnificent job, half the country think he should have been replaced 10 months ago.