Kallis Vs Sobers

[Uppercut]

We're not talking about whether a team would win or not if a player did/did not perform. Otherwise, by that standard it would make sense to rubbish lone-wolves like Murali and Hadlee because the sides that played them knew they didn't have to perform well against them for most of the times they played against them, they'd win regardless whether they were at their best.

I might be willing to buy it for a few tests, but not 12. That's just sily IMO.

Bangladesh is slightly different, not only that they're a minnow but not test standard. Whilst New Zealand during Sobers time was weaker, they were nowhere near Bangladesh.

Well yeah, but which teams you choose to discount are up to you (I'd probably agree). I was just explaining why I discount the poorest teams.

 

[honestbharani]

How does averaging 27 and striking at 47 count as failure?

Furthermore, you're once again off the mark as you have clearly not read the thread. Warne has played only 2 test matches against Bangladesh, even had he done poor, I wouldn't count it as anything definitive. Sobers has played 12 tests against New Zealand and averaged 23.76. Away in New Zealand he played 7 tests and averaged 15.10.

because I watched the bloody games and I KNEW that the BD batsmen were hitting him at their mercy.. The wickets he picked up, quite a few of them were because they were over-attacking him, thanks to some great bowling at the other end and their own incompetency against the seam bowlers... Trust me, with Murali I have NEVER seen the BD or Zim batsman try to take liberties like that...




And the thing about roles is such that even if say Warney were to have averaged 28 or something which is quite a distance away from what Murali averages, I would still have Warney and Murali extremely close to each other... Warne's role and his style of bowling is such that he will get hit around more than Murali. But it is the same style that makes him more likely to pluck a win or a winning situation out of nothing. Not that Murali has not done it, but Warne has done it more often. This is why we need to pay attention to what was the role the bowler was playing.

 

[Ikki]

because I watched the bloody games and I KNEW that the BD batsmen were hitting him at their mercy.. The wickets he picked up, quite a few of them were because they were over-attacking him, thanks to some great bowling at the other end and their own incompetency against the seam bowlers... Trust me, with Murali I have NEVER seen the BD or Zim batsman try to take liberties like that...

Erm, I watched that series too. To call Warne a failure is pushing it to say the least.

You never saw them take liberties with Murali? In Murali's last game against BD he went 3 for 92. That's worse than Warne. Against Zimbabwe he had whole series where they played him well. In 92 series he averaged 56 and struck at 174. In 99 series he averaged 37 and struck at 111. These just as examples. You should also remember that when Warne played BD he was slightly injured and very fatigued - 10 tests in 6 months. If you watched the tests you would have known that.

And the thing about roles is such that even if say Warney were to have averaged 28 or something which is quite a distance away from what Murali averages, I would still have Warney and Murali extremely close to each other... Warne's role and his style of bowling is such that he will get hit around more than Murali. But it is the same style that makes him more likely to pluck a win or a winning situation out of nothing. Not that Murali has not done it, but Warne has done it more often. This is why we need to pay attention to what was the role the bowler was playing.

You're judging someone who only played 2 tests against them vs someone who played 14 matches against Zimbabwe and 11 against Bangladesh. I think it's safe to say that had he played more he would have made that record even better. This shouldn't even be an argument.

To even argue that 2 tests is enough to make any conclusion is baffling enough, to then use it and say Warne did not do as well as Murali is just an insult to intelligence. You're way off anyway, read again:

Furthermore, you're once again off the mark as you have clearly not read the thread. Warne has played only 2 test matches against Bangladesh, even had he done poor, I wouldn't count it as anything definitive. Sobers has played 12 tests against New Zealand and averaged 23.76. Away in New Zealand he played 7 tests and averaged 15.10.

 

[miscer]

Its 2010 now and kallis averages 55.85.

Sobers is a slightly better batsman than kallis
Kallis is a slightly better bowler than sobers

ITT you'll find diehard fans of a long gone era. I notice heavy bias for players of the past for absolutely no reason. Kallis is pretty much equivalent to Sobers.

Yea I said it. U mad?

 

[kingkallis]

No no, you are right!

They just dont appreciate someone coming and threatening the legendary Garfield.

 

[pietersenrocks]

Flintoff was the best!

 

[Spikey]

Wato

 

[Prince EWS]

Lambert.

 

[Spikey]

brb throwing up

 

[Teja.]

Sobers by a minuscule amount, Kallis is the better bowler though.

 

[Flem274*]

Nothing in this, so went for Kallis because I'm biased.

 

[0RI0N]

Its 2010 now and kallis averages 55.85.

Sobers is a slightly better batsman than kallis
Kallis is a slightly better bowler than sobers

ITT you'll find diehard fans of a long gone era. I notice heavy bias for players of the past for absolutely no reason. Kallis is pretty much equivalent to Sobers.

Yea I said it. U mad?

in on secret rep trade

 

[Dissector]

Kallis is a great cricketer and worthy to be compared to Sobers ultimately he falls short. While Kallis is a fine fielder Sobers is considered one of the greatest fielders of all time. I would also give Sobers points for the versatility of his bowing and his ability to destroy the opposition with the bat. In addition to being an all-rounder Sobers also had to bear the burden of captaincy and while he is remembered for that one disastrous declaration I don't think he was a bad captain overall. In a recent Cricinfo video I heard Ian Chappell argue that Sobers was underrated as a captain.

 

[bagapath]

Sobers has played 12 tests against New Zealand and averaged 23.76. Away in New Zealand he played 7 tests and averaged 15.10.

Ikki! Out of those 12 tests, Sobers played with an upset tummy in six. he was hung over during three more. And, while playing in the remaining three, he was suffering from a bad migraine. Please ignore those stats because he was obviously not 100% fit whenever he played New Zealand, a bit like Warne playing India. And, in addition, Sobers' mom was not smart enough to get him a good pill, too.

 

[morgieb]

Ikki! Out of those 12 tests, Sobers played with an upset tummy in six. he was hung over during three more. And, while playing in the remaining three, he was suffering from a bad migraine. Please ignore those stats because he was obviously not 100% fit whenever he played New Zealand, a bit like Warne playing India. And, in addition, Sobers' mom was not smart enough to get him a good pill, too.

Haha.

 

[Himannv]

Ikki! Out of those 12 tests, Sobers played with an upset tummy in six. he was hung over during three more. And, while playing in the remaining three, he was suffering from a bad migraine. Please ignore those stats because he was obviously not 100% fit whenever he played New Zealand, a bit like Warne playing India. And, in addition, Sobers' mom was not smart enough to get him a good pill, too.

 

[Blaze 18]

Sir Gary Sobers by a country mile for mine.

 

[kingkallis]

Sir Gary Sobers by a country mile for mine.

Such thing can be said only if you have said both performing live. Did you witness both legends performing for their teams respectively?

 

[Blaze 18]

Such thing can be said only if you have said both performing live. Did you witness both legends performing for their teams respectively?

Have you seen Sir Donald Bradman live ?

 

[cricket100%]

Well let us have a look at the stats. I am using only Tests in this example.

Jacques Kallis
Mathes - 137
Bowling
Wickets - 261
Average - 31.55
Best Bowling - 6/54
Batting
Runs - 10 843
Average - 54.76
100s/50s - 34/53
Top score - 189*
Fielding
Catches - 155

Gary Sobers
Matches - 93
Bowling
Wickets - 235
Average - 34.03
Best Bowling - 6/73
Batting
Runs - 8 032
Average - 57.78
100s/50s - 26/30
Top score - 365*
Fielding
Catches - 109

In the batting Sobers seems miles in front and in the bowling and fielding it is pretty close, but Kallis takes both. None the less the stats appear to indicate that Sober is the better. Hope you have enjoyed it.