Just How Good Was Barry Richards?

[shortpitched713]

Lol we can bring Kallis and Tendulkar too I guess.

 

[trundler]

As a bowling AR
Procter has no competition.

Utterly false

 

[capt_Luffy]

Spinners Goel, Shivalkar and Vaman Kumar played 2 Tests between them. How highly are they rated in India?

Ranji Trophy stats:

Bedi 403 wickets @ 15.00. 5.3 wpm
Goel 637 @ 17.28. 5.2 wpm
Prasanna 370 @ 17.29. 5.2 wpm
Shivalkar 361 @ 17.78. 4.9 wpm
Vaman Kumar 418 @ 18.13. 4.9 wpm
Venkat 530 @ 18.22. 5.5 wpm
Gupte 121 @ 18.71. 5.0 wpm
Chandra 437 @ 19.11. 5.8 wpm

Rajendra Goel, Padmakar Shivalkar and Varman Kumar are relatively forgotten in India among the general audience for not playing much Tests, but not totally; especially the first 2. In every article on best Indian spinners, the name of Goel and Shivalkar comes up at the introduction, as "really unlucky" and not being eligible to rate. As they don't have a Test career they are seldom rated by modern journalist. Haven't consumed too much cricket media from their playing days, but the journalists from back then surely do look at them very favourably. I have heard more than a few to say they were as good as Bedi and it was highly political that they didn't got to play any matches. That argument does hold some merit, as Venkataraghavan and Prasanna played more than fair few matches together, and these 3 were most likely a better bowler than the former. They also were much flatter and quicker unlike Bedi. A few journalists even called them, especially Goel; better than Bedi. Now, that involves a certain degree of rose tinted glasses, a feeling of injustice and Bedi being a highly polarising character with very strong opinions, particularly not in favour of the ruling party. Their name comes up the most often when discussing the best uncapped players or making some kind of uncapped XIs. As a result, Varman Kumar being capped twice; goes under the radar really hard. I even learnt of him way later than I should had. He probably would be rated higher had he never played any Tests, despite taking a respectable 7 wickets in 2 matches @29. If asked for my opinion, I feel with Bedi-Chandrasekhar-Prasanna around, these 3 were really just extremely unlucky. Ranji Trophy performances are hard to project 1-0-1 to Test matches, but spinners are comparatively truer than pacers, batsmen and all-rounders. So, I actually expect them to be at worst decently successful at international level, but it's more speculative than say Vincent van der Bijl or Clive Rice.


Some other notable Indian spinners with less than 3 Tests, with FC stats:

AG Ram Singh (0 Tests/SLA): 265 @18.56
Was a proper all-rounder averaging 35 with the bat. Was contemporary of Amar Singh and Nissar, missed the Test matches but played in the unofficial ones and was decently successful I believe. Career got ended due to war. His sons, AG Kripal Singh and AG Milkha Singh both played Tests.

Jalaj Saxena (0 Tests/Offie): 464 @25.3
He is a contemporary, but being 37 now, unlikely to get a game. Recently mad the headlines here for becoming the first player to take 400 wickets and score 6000 runs in Ranji trophy (@34). I think he is the most similar to those 3; not getting a Test for Ashwin and Jadeja (and Axar, Kuldeep, Washington).

Utpal Chatterjee (0 Tests/SLA): 503 @25
Was also a 21 averaging bat, so unlucky to not get a Test for Venkatpaty Raju; as they seem to be rated as around equal bowlers. Played 3 ODIs though.

Palwankar Baloo (0 Tests/SLA): 179 @15.21
Is highly regarded as India's first great spinner. Not necessarily unlucky, just played before India got Test status.

Rustomji Jamshedji (1 Test/SLA): 135 @21.6
Played before war in Mumbai, got 3 wickets @45.7. The most I know of him is that Wilfred Rhodes said that he would had averaged half of what he if he could turn the ball as big as him.

Raghuram Bhat (2 Tests/SLA): 374 @22.66
Played 2 Test, got 4 wickets @37.75. Was particularly noted for his ability to run complete havoc in a bad wicket, were he can turn the ball viciously. Is most famous for 13 wicket Ranji Semi-final match with a hat-trick vs Mumbai. As he ran through them, Gavaskar went out to bat left handed for Mumbai. He stated it was because that was the best way to play his vicious turn; most believed it was a jerk move to **** on his teammates.

 

[peterhrt]

Rajendra Goel, Padmakar Shivalkar and Varman Kumar are relatively forgotten in India among the general audience for not playing much Tests, but not totally; especially the first 2. In every article on best Indian spinners, the name of Goel and Shivalkar comes up at the introduction, as "really unlucky" and not being eligible to rate. As they don't have a Test career they are seldom rated by modern journalist. Haven't consumed too much cricket media from their playing days, but the journalists from back then surely do look at them very favourably. I have heard more than a few to say they were as good as Bedi and it was highly political that they didn't got to play any matches. That argument does hold some merit, as Venkataraghavan and Prasanna played more than fair few matches together, and these 3 were most likely a better bowler than the former. They also were much flatter and quicker unlike Bedi. A few journalists even called them, especially Goel; better than Bedi. Now, that involves a certain degree of rose tinted glasses, a feeling of injustice and Bedi being a highly polarising character with very strong opinions, particularly not in favour of the ruling party. Their name comes up the most often when discussing the best uncapped players or making some kind of uncapped XIs. As a result, Varman Kumar being capped twice; goes under the radar really hard. I even learnt of him way later than I should had. He probably would be rated higher had he never played any Tests, despite taking a respectable 7 wickets in 2 matches @29. If asked for my opinion, I feel with Bedi-Chandrasekhar-Prasanna around, these 3 were really just extremely unlucky. Ranji Trophy performances are hard to project 1-0-1 to Test matches, but spinners are comparatively truer than pacers, batsmen and all-rounders. So, I actually expect them to be at worst decently successful at international level, but it's more speculative than say Vincent van der Bijl or Clive Rice.


Some other notable Indian spinners with less than 3 Tests, with FC stats:

AG Ram Singh (0 Tests/SLA): 265 @18.56
Was a proper all-rounder averaging 35 with the bat. Was contemporary of Amar Singh and Nissar, missed the Test matches but played in the unofficial ones and was decently successful I believe. Career got ended due to war. His sons, AG Kripal Singh and AG Milkha Singh both played Tests.

Jalaj Saxena (0 Tests/Offie): 464 @25.3
He is a contemporary, but being 37 now, unlikely to get a game. Recently mad the headlines here for becoming the first player to take 400 wickets and score 6000 runs in Ranji trophy (@34). I think he is the most similar to those 3; not getting a Test for Ashwin and Jadeja (and Axar, Kuldeep, Washington).

Utpal Chatterjee (0 Tests/SLA): 503 @25
Was also a 21 averaging bat, so unlucky to not get a Test for Venkatpaty Raju; as they seem to be rated as around equal bowlers. Played 3 ODIs though.

Palwankar Baloo (0 Tests/SLA): 179 @15.21
Is highly regarded as India's first great spinner. Not necessarily unlucky, just played before India got Test status.

Rustomji Jamshedji (1 Test/SLA): 135 @21.6
Played before war in Mumbai, got 3 wickets @45.7. The most I know of him is that Wilfred Rhodes said that he would had averaged half of what he if he could turn the ball as big as him.

Raghuram Bhat (2 Tests/SLA): 374 @22.66
Played 2 Test, got 4 wickets @37.75. Was particularly noted for his ability to run complete havoc in a bad wicket, were he can turn the ball viciously. Is most famous for 13 wicket Ranji Semi-final match with a hat-trick vs Mumbai. As he ran through them, Gavaskar went out to bat left handed for Mumbai. He stated it was because that was the best way to play his vicious turn; most believed it was a jerk move to **** on his teammates.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Great post. Thanks.

Gavaskar rated both Goel and Shivalkar very highly and named them as two of his cricket heroes in a book of his iirc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gavaskar rated both Goel and Shivalkar very highly and named them as two of his cricket heroes in a book of his iirc.

Idols I believe.

 

[kyear2]

So even most of the lists were trash, they were some good ones and it was instructional, or at least interesting to see how Barry was rated in those.

Christopher Martin Jenkins rated him 28th
Gower 15th
Crowe had him amongst the top 14 of the era (all but 3 I rate to ATGs)

ESPN had him 24th.

Of the lesser ones.

Woodcock had him 15th
Broken dreams 19th
TMS 15th

He does seem to enjoy quite the peer rating.